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Dallas Sniper 7/7/2016

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby careinke » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 05:01:21

vtsnowedin wrote:I have to side with Dohboi on this one even thought we seldom agree on anything. The idea that those at Harvard have risen above any racism is absurd. ( we are all naturally born racists but some of us are working on the problem while others pretend to be past it.)
The results of Harvard research is anything but unbiased and is totally driven by what result will yield the maximum future research grant dollars.
Even academic squints realize that they and their families have to eat and turn out results that are most likely to keep them gainfully employed. :mrgreen:


The idea that we are naturally born racist is absurd. Racism is a learned behavior, plain and simple.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby careinke » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 05:48:37

Shaved Monkey wrote:A cop in Australia just got charged with assault for pointing a gun at and handcuffing a guy he pulled over.


You Aussies are so violent! It must be your criminal heritage.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 09:30:21

Actually there is quite a bit of evidence that we are born racist, or more correctly, predisposed to serve and protect those closest to us. In Darwinian evolution males competes for mating favor one on one. But also colonial animals compete for resources with adjacent colonies. Supposedly that recognition goes back to Darwin himself.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusociality

Anyway, it's seems fairly obvious that we have a predisposition to protect our clan and assure its success over other clans. Therein are the roots of racism.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 09:43:53

I'm pretty dang sure when social constraints are removed, difference is very attractive. I'm pretty much white, but of 6 national extractions, my wife has another 5 our kids have 11 national extractions stretching from Polynesia to Ireland. If I married again it would be to a north African.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 12:47:59

I really have to take issue with this notion that we are born racist. Much evidence and information exists that humans and even animals are very open in their relationships even with different species. Even they're been cases of humans left alone in the wilderness who have been taken in by certain animals. In fact the whole notion of us being "programmed" goes against much data which shows that humans have a wide range of potential behavior and responses and that the culture and the environment a particular individual is raised in and exists within is what determines the way that individual will act and react. A child shows willingness to play and interact with anyone including pets at a young age. Only with cultural conditioning will the child differentiate and be selective.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby vox_mundi » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 14:20:25

Appears the ex-pres is off the wagon ...

Former President George W. Bush 'Drunk Dancing' at Dallas Memorial Service

Image
Image

Video - At Tuesday's memorial for the five officers killed last week in an ambush attack in downtown Dallas, President Barack Obama was joined on stage by the first lady, vice president and his wife, former first lady Laura Bush, and a dancing former president — George W. Bush.

Many took to social media to express their concern, wondering if Bush was drunk, and to make a few jokes. And many seemed upset that Bush appeared so happy at such a solemn event.

For Comparison
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 15:47:51

Racism is confine within the species. You may love or hate another species and that reflects nothing on racism.

But I would not be surprised if, yet again, we are arguing over words or ideas where we do t have a common understanding.

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Full Definition of racism
1
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2
: racial prejudice or discrimination


Definition of race
1
: a breeding stock of animals
2
a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock
b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics
3
a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group
b : breed
c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 15:57:15

And to carry on pedantically a bit more......

Youths of all species are unique situation. I read somewhere, probably something my wife said, about the facial structure of pre adolescent animals being sort of round and cute, so we big animals don't kill them.

But males frequently kill the offspring of other males when the win breeding rights with the mother. That's a consequence of Darwinisim, kill the competition, make sure my DNA survives.

If you want further examples read
https://www.amazon.ca/Our-Inner-Ape-Pri ... 1594481962

Just not before bedtime or after a heavy meal.

Edited to add.....
I agree racism can be taught, encouraged, manipulated and amplified. It can also be attenuated.

All I'm saying is it is a natural Human trait that exists in us all. We are fertile ground for hatred. The nutrients exists in our makeup.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Lore » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 16:11:31

People are not naturally racist. We are social and define ourselves in groups. That is independent of race.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 16:26:05

Lore wrote:People are not naturally racist. We are social and define ourselves in groups. That is independent of race.


BS
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Lore » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 16:41:51

Newfie wrote:
Lore wrote:People are not naturally racist. We are social and define ourselves in groups. That is independent of race.


BS


Right;... rather than spouting nonsense how about looking up what science has to say about it?

New Evidence That Racism Isn't 'Natural'

There's never been good reason to believe that human beings are naturally racist. After all, in the environment of human evolution--which didn't feature, for example, jet travel to other continents--there would have been virtually no encounters between groups that had different skin colors or other conspicuous physical differences. So it's not as if the human lineage could have plausibly developed, by evolutionary adaptation, an instinctive reaction to members of different races.

Nonetheless, people who want to argue that racism is natural have tried to buttress their position with evidence that racism is in some sense biological. For example: studies have found that when whites see black faces there is increased activity in the amygdala, a brain structure associated with emotion and, specifically, with the detection of threats.

Well, whatever power that kind of argument ever had--which wasn't much, since the fact that a psychological reaction has a biological correlate doesn't tell you whether the reaction is innate--it has even less power now. In a paper that will be published in the Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience, Eva Telzer of UCLA and three other researchers report that they've performed these amygdala studies--which had previously been done on adults--on children. And they found something interesting: the racial sensitivity of the amygdala doesn't kick in until around age 14.

What's more: once it kicks in, it doesn't kick in equally for everybody. The more racially diverse your peer group, the less strong the amygdala effect. At really high levels of diversity, the effect disappeared entirely. The authors of the study write that ''these findings suggest that neural biases to race are not innate and that race is a social construction, learned over time.''

There's a reason the previous sentence says "suggest" and not "prove." As the authors note, it's conceivable that "the increasing amygdala response to race [with age] may be driven by intrinsic factors of the child, such as puberty, rather than exposure to cultural messages." For that matter, the correlation between peer group diversity and dampened amygdala response doesn't mean the former causes the latter; it could work the other way around: maybe people with a mild response to racial difference wind up with more diverse peers.

But all of this is almost beside the point anyway, because there have always been plenty of reasons to believe that the amygdala response doesn't reflect an instinctive aversion to the racial "other." For example: The amygdala's response to African-American faces had been observed not just in European-American adults but in African-American adults--who aren't, in this case, the "other." Apparently whatever cultural information was inculcating a particular response to blacks in whites was having a similar effect in blacks.

I'm not a blank slater; I don't believe that we're born innocent, and only develop a dark side after bad tendencies are engrained by evil capitalists, or evil patriarchs, or evil warmongers, or evil whatevers. I think that, though we're not naturally racist, we're naturally "groupist." Evolution seems to have inclined us to readily define whole groups of people as the enemy, after which we can find their suffering, even death, very easy to countenance and even facilitate.

But when it comes to defining this enemy--defining the "out group"--people are very flexible. The out group can be defined by its language, its religion, its skin color, its jersey color. (And jersey color can trump skin color--just watch a brawl between one racially integrated sports team and another.) It all depends on which group we consider (rightly or wrongly) in some sense threatening to our interests.

It's in this sense that race is a "social construct." It's not a category that's inherently correlated with our patterns of fear or mistrust or hatred, though, obviously, it can become one. So it's within our power to construct a society in which race isn't a meaningful construct.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archi ... al/263785/
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Lore » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 16:49:38

vox_mundi wrote:Appears the ex-pres is off the wagon ...

Former President George W. Bush 'Drunk Dancing' at Dallas Memorial Service

Image
Image

Video - At Tuesday's memorial for the five officers killed last week in an ambush attack in downtown Dallas, President Barack Obama was joined on stage by the first lady, vice president and his wife, former first lady Laura Bush, and a dancing former president — George W. Bush.

Many took to social media to express their concern, wondering if Bush was drunk, and to make a few jokes. And many seemed upset that Bush appeared so happy at such a solemn event.

For Comparison


If I were him, I'd try to drink to forget too!
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 17:00:28

How Obama ruined his Dallas Memorial speech

how-obama-ruined-his-dallas-memorial-speech

The speech started out good and hit a high point with Obama's line about how We are not divided as it seems---the first part of the speech was probably the work of a good speechwriter.

But in the second half of the speech the tone of the speech changed, and Obama turned into his usual hectoring, lecturing, arrogant self and proceeded to hijack the memorial for five slain Dallas policemen by giving a political speech.

At a speech that supposedly was intended to memorialize the slain Dallas policemen, obama managed to mention himself 47 times--he talked about himself more then he talked about the fallen cops.

Obama spent the last part of his speech telling the audience of mourning family members that must listen more to what black voices says, i.e. listen to what Black Lives Matter has to say about how racist policemen are.

Really? I mean Really?....is that kind of BS necessary at this important memorial to the fallen policemen?

No doubt Obama wrote the last 25 minutes of the speech himself---its got his whiney style.

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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Lore » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 17:02:39

Yes Plant, but drunken Bush made up for all that with his happy dance!

Image

As for mentioning himself 47 times in his speech, Trump can do that in a single paragraph. :lol:
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Cog » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 18:16:47

A quick pro-tip when dealing with police. One thing you should understand about them is they intend to go home that night. Your life is not a priority to them. When they give a command, whatever that command is, follow it. Commands such as turn around so we can cuff you, drop the knife or gun, or get out of the vehicle. The time to argue the point of your arrest is in a court of law and not out on the street. Follow these simple steps and most officer involved shootings simply won't happen. Fairness or the lack thereof is meaningless when you are laying on a coroner's slab.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 18:22:07

Suicide by cop comes to mind.

But really this is just good advice in a lot of instances. How many times do we have to learn to pick our fights just to get through school or to keep our jobs.

Sure there are bad cops, they need to be dealt with. I'm personally more concerned about the general militarization of police, the formation and use of SWAT teams where it is not warranted. But what seems to be happening is we a giving permission, encouraging folks to resist, while the cops are feeling more and more under pressure and threat.

I'm not gonna get into arguing right and wrong, I don't have any solutions. It's a bad situation and it may well get worse. I would not be surprised if the Democratic Convention goes poorly because a certain element will feel enabled to give voice to their grievences and work themselves into a fury.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Loki » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 21:30:03

Suicide by cop is an interesting topic. The American Association of Suicideology cites a study of 707 police shootings between 1998 and 2006 that found that 36% were likely attempted suicide by cop.

Another study found that 95% of suicide by cop subjects were men. 16% were black, a bit more than would be expected given their population. Only 41% were white (white men just go ahead and shoot themselves). Hispanics were a whopping 26% (they were roughly 14% of the US population in 2006, the last year of the study).

So this may partially explain the higher than expected rate of violent encounters between blacks and cops. A part of the story that is rarely mentioned. Black suicide rates are quite low compared to whites, but some argue that the raw suicide numbers may not tell the whole story.

Possibly, too, Black suicide rates seem relatively low because suicide is not straightforward to define. Some deaths that are not called suicides may amount to the same thing. One possibility is “suicide by cop,” in which individuals deliberately behave in threatening ways toward police, in attempts to provoke a lethal response. “Suicide by interpersonal violence” also happens, when individuals provoke family members, friends, or strangers to make lethal responses to them. Rather than simply categorizing violence among Black youth as “street violence,” or even bullying, analysts should consider ways in which certain Black youth seem to intentionally invoke violent encounters in the expectation of being harmed or even killed. Some of these situations may amount to suicide, which would imply that low statistical rates of suicide for African Americans are not what they seem. Possibly, the kinds of factors that make people unusually vulnerable to suicide are leading to Black deaths that amount to suicides, even if they are not officially classified as such.

http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/ ... th-suicide


And before Dohboi squeals RACIST! and makes a fool of himself again, the professor who wrote this, Kimya Dennis, is black.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 14 Jul 2016, 00:00:16

Loki, that was established many pages ago. Have you been asleep?

That doesn't disqualify him from bad research.

Meanwhile: "I have to side with Dohboi on this one"

Thanks, vt. It takes real courage to stand up to these thugs in this context. Best wishes to you in an uncertain future.
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 14 Jul 2016, 00:23:42

Excepting vt and a few others, the rest of you seem to be goose stepping your way to a bright new future.

May it lighten your way all the way to our gas chambers!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Citizens kill cops in Dallas protest 7/8/16

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 14 Jul 2016, 08:58:05

Yes, most of us see things in a different light. Perhaps more clearly.
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