[Newfie]

Interesting, Trump leads in Michigan by 10,700. Stein had 51,000 votes. So who did in Hillary?

Maybe this recount is just because Stein is feeling guilty.

Cog is correct in that the original tally has already been scrubbed with a small decrease in Hillarys favor. What more would a recount do?

http://www.freep.com/story/news/politic ... /94360852/

[Newfie]

Interesting to see Trump supporters and Clinton haters so nervously opposed to a recount.

If there's nothing to find, there's nothing for you folks to worry about, right?

The fact that you're worried tells us that you actually think there may be serious problems.

It's not that for me.

We need to put this BS election behind us and move onto other matters.

I think the serious proble is that you all are so worked up deciding between the Devil and Beelzebub.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Interesting to see Trump supporters and Clinton haters so nervously opposed to a recount.

If there's nothing to find, there's nothing for you folks to worry about, right?

The fact that you're worried tells us that you actually think there may be serious problems.

I'm not worried at all. I just don't like all the political nonsense. For the election to be reversed, Clinton would have to win all three states where the allegations are being made. "

What I don't like is the inconsistency with which such allegations are treated, and how things with much more statistical evidence are ignored when Clintons are involved.

But I like how since you've been caught in distorting the facts, you quickly change the subject. So congrats on that.

[Plantagenet]

Interesting to see Trump supporters and Clinton haters so nervously opposed to a recount.

If there's nothing to find, there's nothing for you folks to worry about, right?

I'm not worried at all. I just don't like all the political nonsense. For the election to be reversed, Clinton would have to win all three states where the allegations are being made. "

What I don't like is the inconsistency with which such allegations are treated, and how things with much more statistical evidence are ignored when Clintons are involved.

But I like how since you've been caught in distorting the facts, you quickly change the subject. So congrats on that.

I'm ashamed that my Green Party allowed itself to be used as a stalking horse by the Ds.

The good news is that sham is over now. Hillary has crawled out from under her rock and admitted that she is behind this attempt to subvert the election.


Hillary and the Ds want to subvert the election! What a bunch of snakes....

Cheers!

[Cog]

Yep saw that Hillary had joined the effort to overturn the election. What a surprise. So did the Dems stuff ballot boxes before the election or right after it knowing this recount was coming?

[Newfie]

Interesting article. Doesn't sound like they expect to win. It notes dos page that even the small 10,700 vote Trump lead in Michigan is much bigger than any past recount turnover. In PA he has over a 70,000 vote lead.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/us ... itics.com/

The essay suggested that the campaign was joining the recount effort with little expectation that it would change the result. But many of the campaign’s supporters, picking up on its frequent complaints of Russian interference in the election, have enthusiastically backed the recount effort led by Jill Stein, who was the Green Party candidate.

Ms. Stein filed for a recount in Wisconsin on Friday afternoon, about an hour before the deadline. She has raised more than $5 million for the effort, which now will turn to Michigan and Pennsylvania, where there are deadlines next week.

In his post, Mr. Elias sounded less enthusiastic than the recount’s many supporters. “Because we had not uncovered any actionable evidence of hacking or outside attempts to alter the voting technology,” he wrote, “we had not planned to exercise this option ourselves.”

He added, “Now that a recount has been initiated in Wisconsin, we intend to participate in order to ensure the process proceeds in a manner that is fair to all sides.”

[Sixstrings]

Did Trump win because of Russia? The answer is scary.

A foreign country had a big hand in our election and brainwashed voters with propaganda. Let that sink in.

The Post stops short of crediting Russia with Trump’s win. However, considering the role the foreign country played and the fact the election came down to close margins in a handful of states, Hillary Clinton would have likely won without Russian involvement.
http://fusion.net/story/372197/russia-propoganda-helped-trump-win/

Article in Alternet:

Green Recount Effort Poised To Explore Whether Russia Hacked The Vote For Trump
The stakes and lines of inquiry became clearer on Friday and Saturday, as Clinton campaign joined effort.

The Green's petition opens by stating they believe “an irregularity” has occurred affecting the entire state. It goes on to say that in August, “foreign operators breached voter registration databases in at least two states and stole hundreds of thousands of voter records” at the same time the e-mail systems of the Democratic National Committee and Clinton campaign were hacked and put online. It lists warnings by federal homeland security officials to states to take steps to protect these databases, and then lays out its theories. ...

Russia tried to breach voter registration databases in 20 states last summer, Halderman said, citing the Department of Homeland Security as his source. ...

“If a foreign government were to attempt to hack American voting machines to influence the outcome of a presidential election, one might expect the hackers to proceed as follows,” Halderman continued.

“First, the attackers might probe election offices well in advance to find ways to break into the computers. Next, closer to the election, when it was clear from polling data which state would have close electoral margin, the attackers might spread malware into voting machines into some of the states, manipulating the machines to shift a few percent of the vote to favor the desired candidate.

This malware would likely be designed to remain inactive during pre-election tests, perform its function during the election, and then erase itself after the polls closed. One would expect a skilled attacker’s work to leave no visible signs, other than a surprising electoral outcome in which results in several close states differed from pre-election polling.”

America’s voting machinery is especially vulnerable to that scenario, Halderman said, noting that he personally has installed malware in electronic voting machines to achieve that exact result.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/green-recount-effort-poised-explore-whether-russia-hacked-vote-trump

Donald Trump calls state election recount a 'scam'

WASHINGTON: Donald Trump called a recount of votes being prepared in Wisconsin a scam, insisting Saturday that his presidential win should be respected, not "challenged and abused."

The recount, which was requested by Green Party candidate Jill Stein, who received a minute fraction of the total vote, flew in the face of an election "that has already been conceded," Trump said.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/donald-trump-calls-state-election-recount-a-scam/articleshow/55644688.cms

To be fair and balanced and objective, here's the full Trump statement:



My opinion: the law is the law. Election law could be CHANGED, going forward. But for now, the law's the law and the Constitution is the Constitution.

It doesn't matter what anyone THINKS about it -- the recount process is up to judges in Wisconsin, and the other states.

If Trump had lost, all indications were actually that he was likely to challenge the results. Which would have been his right too, under the law.

If the recount doesn't show anything really crazy going on, then there's no harm in doing the recount (though again, it's about candidates' rights under the law, it's not subject to anyone's opinion about it except judges).

Also, even many Republicans say the Russia stuff needs to be looked into so actually it just HELPS the incoming Trump administration if there's a double check and audit and it shows nothing.

And also it's just a good government thing to do, for going forward in the future, to make sure the voting machines can't be hacked.

[Plantagenet]

A foreign country had a big hand in our election and brainwashed voters with propaganda. Let that sink in.

The DNC's internal emails were propaganda?

You know, that might actually be true!


D party propaganda

[Sixstrings]

D party propaganda

That was likely not from the "Democratic Party" but rather was AMERICAN "propaganda" during the LAST cold war, back when Russia was authoritarian far left communist and they were starting to overwhelm us internally, in our country.

Nowadays, the Russian government is far right authoritarian (opposite end of what they were, in the last cold war) and now THAT is what they're spreading in the world, and flipping governments to Moscow's orbit.

As for propaganda --

Politics is like religion. A Christian can't go wrong, if he sticks to the Bible. And in politics, an American can't go wrong if he sticks to the Constitution and the founding fathers and all our 240 years of American history, and our values.

If we're talking about "propaganda" well, I'm sorry, but I like Ben Franklin and Lincoln and Ronald Reagan.

I hope and pray the Republican Party finds its way back home, about certain core principles and values that are bigger than just one air conditioner factory in Indiana. (which could be saved, WITHOUT all the Putin stuff added in)

I like Ronald Reagan. That's where I stand. Any deals with Moscow should be from THAT worldview -- not a Putinist worldview.

[Cog]

Jill Clinton will have a more difficult process in Michigan and Pennsylvania. She will have to show up in court, in every county that she wants to have recounted, and show prima facie evidence that a fraud or miscount actually occurred. Since neither she nor that computer expert allege that they have this evidence, this will not go very far. I wonder if she realized this before she scammed Democrats out of $6 million dollars.

I should have thought of this scam first and made bank.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11 ... ake-court/

[dohboi]

The thing that these kind of investigations can do is to bring up enough doubt about the whole election, especially given the extreme popular vote 'victory' by the Dems, that it will cause enough electors to swing their votes that the election will go the other way.

[Outcast_Searcher]

The thing that these kind of investigations can do is to bring up enough doubt about the whole election, especially given the extreme popular vote 'victory' by the Dems, that it will cause enough electors to swing their votes that the election will go the other way.

For the thousandth time, CA isn't the US.

[Cog]

The thing that these kind of investigations can do is to bring up enough doubt about the whole election, especially given the extreme popular vote 'victory' by the Dems, that it will cause enough electors to swing their votes that the election will go the other way.

In your dreams. Donald J. Trump will be inaugurated on Jan 20th and not all your little progressive games and crying are going to change that outcome.

[Plantagenet]

The Ds are out to subvert the election process.

The Ds want to spread a nutty conspiracy theory as a way to undermine people's faith in our elections and the governmental insitutions of our glorious Republic.

Its disgusting, IMHO.

[Sixstrings]

Recount effort poised to explore whether Russia hacked the vote for Trump
https://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/recount-effort-poised-to-explore-whether-russia-hacked-the-vote-for-trump/

Trump's been doing a lot of tweets about the recount. It makes me wonder if they're worried there might be something there, there.

With No Evidence, Trump Claims 'Millions' Voted Illegally
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/tweet-flurry-president-elect-donald-trump-calls-recount-efforts-sad-n688761

I'll just give strategic political advice. What Trump admin SHOULD do:

-- start going more establishment. Get Romney in for sec of state, and some more establishment GOP people.

-- take the high road about the recount. Handle it like W. Bush did -- be totally QUIET and calm in public about it, and then just have good lawyers etc.

-- Start distancing from Kremlin ties, either now or SOON. I actually don't think (just my hunch) there was any direct involvement between the campaign and Russia regarding influencing the election.

But the transition team ought to start thinking about how things LOOK.

They should start to distance from anyone that's got Russia lobbyist ties, etc. And they should start having a more balanced policy about Russia, like, make some moves that are in support of Ukraine and the Baltics.

This would inoculate the administration in case some stuff starts coming out, about Russia influencing the election.

If things start coming out, and if at the same time Trump admin is trying to push Russia-tied staff through Senate confirmation, and at the same time they've got total pro Kremlin policies -- then it wouldn't look good, or help matters.

I found this interesting, Bernie Sanders seems to be against the recount:

Bernie Sanders downplays Wisconsin recount: ‘Nobody cares’

“It’s taking place. The Green Party has the legal right to do it … No one expects there to be profound change, but there’s nothing wrong with going through the process,” Mr. Sanders said, going on to throw cold water on any notion that the result in Wisconsin could change.

“This is exactly the issue — nobody cares,” he said. “I don’t think Hillary Clinton, who got 2 million more votes than [President-elect Donald] Trump in the popular election, thinks it’s going to transform the election. But do people have the legal right to do it? Yeah, we do.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/27/bernie-sanders-downplays-wisconsin-recount-nobody-/

I'm a bit surprised by that. I wonder WHY Bernie is downplaying it? I wonder what his reasons are.

It's actually the Democratic Party base that is all giving money to the recount.

It seems to me like a LOT of people in the base, just have some questions about some things and just want an honest audit and double check, that's all -- it's not like people can't accept Trump, that's not the situation.

[Cog]

Trump managed to get elected without your stellar advice and he will govern just fine by doing the opposite of everything you have suggested.

[Sixstrings]

Trump managed to get elected without your stellar advice and he will govern just fine by doing the opposite of everything you have suggested.

I just hope the foreign policy team gets balanced out and get Romney or Bolton in there (or someone like that).

Is that still okay, to just have a different opinion from the tea party base?

You base R's won't even accept the other half of your party -- so that's the problem about "unity," if you won't accept even fellow Republicans much less Democrats.

This is a big country Cog, and there's a LOT of Republicans and Democrats and it's not just the Trump wing that can just be right about everything and nobody else can have an opinion.

[Cog]

Elections have consequences Sixstrings. Something you still haven't realized. Trump is doing fine with his cabinet picks and they will reflect his philosophy as a winner of an election and not a loser of one. Losers whine, winners dictate the terms of the surrender. But back on topic.

Since I am evil, if I were heading the election commission in Wisconsin I would jack up the costs for the recount which I would charge the Green Party. Nothing in election law says I have to eat any of the costs of it. I would encourage my county election officials to submit large numbers to make sure of that. It would roughly equal what Jill Stein has raised so far. Any money left over could be returned to the taxpayers in the form of a property tax rebate.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/poli ... /94518204/

It will be a significant challenge to complete a statewide recount of nearly 3 million votes in less than two weeks. County canvass boards"It and (Wisconsin Elections Commission) staff will need to put in a substantial amount of extended hours throughout the next few weeks," according to the memorandum.

If approved at a 9:30 a.m. meeting Monday at the elections commission in Madison, here's how the recount will be conducted:

•Monday, cost estimates and vote tabulation method will be provided by county clerks to the commission by noon. Commission officials will provide estimated statewide costs to the campaigns of both Stein and independent candidate Roque "Rocky" De La Fuente by the end of the day.
•Tuesday, the Stein and De La Fuente campaigns pay for the recount. Once full payment is received by either campaign, the commission will issue a recount order to all presidential candidates.

[Cog]

Jill Stein has hit her first roadblock in Wisconsin. She insisted that the paper ballots be checked by hand. That has been rejected by the three Democrat and three Republican members of the election commission. Also rejected by the Democrat Election Chairman, who is a Democrat. Stein has threatened to sue over that issue. Good luck with that.

The state AG is a Republican and the state Supreme Court is 5-2 conservative judges. No where in Wisconsin state law is there a requirement that a recount must be done by hand or personally checking each ballot. The paper ballots can be scanned just as they were when people voted. The machines will be checked for accuracy by both Republican and Democrat election judges. Once more Jill Stein has no clue what she is doing or is just fleecing the donors.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/poli ... /94539210/

Unless Stein wins her lawsuit in Dane County Circuit Court, officials in each of Wisconsin’s 72 counties would decide on their own whether to do their recounts by hand. That could mean some counties perform recounts by machine and some by hand.

Citing the results of a 2011 statewide recount that changed only 300 votes, Elections Commission chairman Mark Thomsen, a Democrat, said this presidential recount is very unlikely to change Republican Donald Trump's win in the state.

"It may not be 22,177," said Thomsen, referring to Trump's win over Democrat Hillary Clinton in the vote count. "But I don’t doubt that the president-elect is going to win that."

Thomsen dismissed Stein's claims of problems with the vote as unfounded and misleading. But he directed his toughest criticism to Trump's unsupported allegations that millions of people voted illegally nationwide, calling them "an insult to the people that run our elections."

The commission is made up of three Democrats and three Republicans. It adopted the recount plans unanimously.

[Cog]

On a different note, when I was a Republican poll watcher in Illinois in both early voting and on election day, I spent some time talking to the county technician who emptied the paper ballots out of the machine and fixed them when they broke down. I asked him specificially if anyone could re-program the machines to read differently. His reply was no, that no one could do so at his level or at any state level. The machines are ran through tests to make sure the filled in bubbles are read correctly. The machines themselves are not connected to the internet in any way.

Now if you want to believe that hundreds of KGB agents snuck into county courthouses and city halls where the machines are stored, and changed the machines right before the vote, then of course I will doubt your sanity.