[Plantagenet]

Trump said sunday that millions of people voted illegally.

Trump says all kinds of crazy things.

That does't mean the Ds also have to go off the deep end and start pushing their own crazy idea that the election was rigged because hundreds of imaginary secret Russian agents armed with flash drives hacked the voting machines to steal the election for Trump.

Two crazy ideas don't cancel each other out. It just ramps up the craziness.


Please. No. Don't trust your crazy ideas. They're CRAZY.

[Newfie]

It's statements like that that I hear as hysterical.

really?
try google

Come on Pops, what the hell does that mean?

How do you "hack" something not connected to the Internet?
It's statements like that that I hear as hysterical.

If you don't understand even after six explained then ask or look up stuxnet & internet and get thousands of hits.
But don't shoot an ad hom because you don't like my politics

Pops,
Sorry I missed this post.

First - I never read 6s posts. Sorry but I'm not wading through all that.

Second - I understand introduction via a USB drive. I consider that an "internet" connection. I consider that a valid concern IF that is being used in those states.

Third - what ad hominim?

[Cog]

So KGB agents are running around with thumb drives and loading up their malware on thousands of voting machines in three states and no one ever noticed? This makes the 911 Truther folks look rational by comparison.

By the way Jill Stein paid her 3.5 million but Wisconsin says it will actually be 3.9 million so they want another check. Michigan is saying it will cost about the same so you Dems better get busy donating. Don't want Jill to run out of money.

[Cog]

So KGB agents are running around with thumb drives and loading up their malware on thousands of voting machines in three states and no one ever noticed. This makes the 911 Truther folks look rational by comparison.

Are the Dems really saying that? Who?

Since the machines in question aren't connected to the internet how else did the Russians hack the election? Unless you think Trump did it personally. I've used the machines and had a tech explain them to me while he repaired one. There is no connection to the internet and the machines are kept locked up in the court house when they aren't being used for elections.

[Sixstrings]

Video link for the court proceedings in Wisconsin.

It starts out with Professor Halderman on the witness stand:

Wisconsin Judge Hears Arguments Over Possible Recount
https://youtu.be/DztjvcdNV3A?t=133

EDIT: that's interesting to watch, it's full testimony with examination and cross examination, re-direct and re-cross, and then the judge asks questions, and then more witnesses.

It's Professor Halderman's sworn testimony that he "does not have confidence" in using the scanners for the recount, and that he would have full confidence in a hand recount.

Under cross examination, he testifies that he has no evidence there was any malware in any Wisconsin ballot scanners. But he testifies that the proof of whether the scanners were compromised or not, can only be known if a hand recount is done (comparing the paper record to the digital record).

Earlier in the testimony, he brought up malware hacking in Ukraine's election and the defense objected and the judge sustained the objection, I think that meant he had to stick to hacking done only in this country in his testimony.

Also earlier in the testimony he goes into technical details about the scanners and risk to hacking, and why he thinks hacking was a bigger risk in this election year.

I'm not sure what the judge's final ruling was about the hand recount, or if the hearing is still ongoing.

[Newfie]

Pops

Trying to stick to facts here. I found a couple interesting articles but can't post links.

Google
Pennsylvania's aging voting machines could be 'nightmare scenario' in the event of a disputed election

And

Unto Themselves’: Experts Show How Pa. Voting Machines Work

In summary most PA machines are 1980s era devices with chips that RECORD the tally. From what I can make out the machines are not in any way susceptible to an Internet or USB drive type hack. They are not that sophisticated.

Hacking requires physical manipulation on a unit by unit basis. I think it said 80% of machines fall into this catagory.

Anyway, that's what I got from googling PA VOTING MACHINES and PA VOTING MACHINES HOW THEY WORK. But you have to wade through tons of idiotic stuff to get to meaningful articles.

[Cog]

Pennsylvania has 9000 locations to vote. From my experience, you generally have at least eight or nine machines even in the very small precincts. Many more at the larger precincts. So lets say 80000 machines, on the conservative side, you would have to individually program to skew the results. How is that even a possible thing? How come no one saw these programmers breaking into court houses, city halls, and carrying out their Mission Impossible type hacks?

[Plantagenet]

Pennsylvania has 9000 locations to vote. From my experience, you generally have at least eight or nine machines even in the very small precincts. Many more at the larger precincts. So lets say 80000 machines, on the conservative side, you would have to individually program to skew the results. How is that even a possible thing? How come no one saw these programmers breaking into court houses, city halls, and carrying out their Mission Impossible type hacks?

There is no point in trying to discuss this logically with the Ds. If they can make up a fantasy about Russian agents hacking the voting machines, then they can also make up imaginary invisibility cloaks and secret underground hyper loops connecting all the voting locations so the Russian spies can whoosh from one site to next on their nefarious mission to hack all the voting machines and rig the election for trump.

Right now the Ds are deep into denial. They are willing to believe anything that lets them avoid facing the reality that Trump won the election.


Map of the secret underground hyperloop network used by imaginary Russian secret agents to hack thousands of voting machines and rig the election for Trump

[dissident]

You are missing a vital detail, Cog. The Russian spies are invisible.

[Cog]

MADISON, Wis. —



The Latest on Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein's request for a recount in Wisconsin (all times local):

8:45 p.m.

A Wisconsin judge has refused to order local officials to conduct the state's presidential recount by hand. Each county can do the recount in whatever manner they choose. Most will feed them back into the machines again as its quicker and less prone to error. Imagine that.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politic ... rylink=cpy

[Sixstrings]

The judge did say though, that she thinks everyone strongly encourages the counties to hand recount, but she says it's the county level decision:

“I will allow the 19 counties to do the recount the way they intended. I think everyone strongly encourages them to do the recount by hand, but it is their decision,” Bailey-Rihn said.
http://wbay.com/2016/11/29/elections-officials-make-calculation-error-in-recount-cost/

[Cog]

A machine count will be less prone to error and they will get the results by the mandated December 12th date. We don't want to keep those electors waiting to cast their vote for Trump.

[Newfie]

If what I read about PA is right it's all over now anyway. 80% of those machines are so old they can't be "hacked" and there is no paper to recount. All you can do is run the same numbers over and see if they still add up.

Cog, Thanks for reminding me of the Conneticut Compromise, although I probably heard it by the Great Compromise. I had either not heard or forgotten the electoral college tie.

I used to support a popular vote. But after Florida and now this I can see that, besides the original intent, the college system makes pieces use recounts simpler. I can't imagine what a nationwide recount would look like or how long it would take. At least now the trouble spots can be localized and focused upon.

[Sixstrings]

If what I read about PA is right it's all over now anyway. 80% of those machines are so old they can't be "hacked" and there is no paper to recount.

What kind of machines are they?

I would almost wonder if the BEST system may actually be the old fashioned punch cards. But then just do something to prevent hanging chads, that was the only trouble with punch cards.

At least there's zero possibility for punchcard machinery to be hacked.

P.S. Or on the other hand, paper marked ballot with scanners is most convenient and best *as long as* states enact strict protocols to block digital hacking. Regarding Wisconsin, I read that in Madison they MAKE SURE the county office desktop pc they use to make the ballot isn't connected to the net. But what I never read about, is if ALL counties do that.

[Sixstrings]

The No-BS Inside Guide to the Presidential Vote Recount

The Ballots in the Electoral "Dumpster"

The nasty little secret of US elections is that we don't count all the votes.

For more original Truthout election coverage, check out our election section, "Beyond the Sound Bites: Election 2016."

In Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania -- and all over America -- there were a massive number of votes that were simply rejected, invalidated and spoiled; they were simply not counted. Officially, in a typical presidential election, at least three million votes end up rejected, often for picayune, absurd reasons.

The rejects fall into three big categories: provisional ballots rejected, absentee and mail-in ballots invalidated and in-precinct votes "spoiled," spit out by a machine or thrown out by a human reader as unreadable or mismarked.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/38553-the-no-bs-inside-guide-to-the-presidential-vote-recount

A good kind of system would entail marking the ballot and the VOTER puts it into the scanner right there at the polling place -- and then the scanner spit it out if it's rejected for error, and then the voter could correct the marking (fill in the bubble properly).

Mail-in, Early and Absentee Ballots Go Absent

If you've gone postal in this election, good luck! According to EAC data, at least half a million absentee ballots go absent, that is, just don't get counted. The cause: everything from postage due, to "suspect signature." In Fitrakis' home state, Ohio, you need to put your driver's license number on the envelope, "and if you don't have a driver's license and leave the line blank -- instead of writing 'no driver's license' -- they toss your ballot," Fitrakis tells me.

It's a "gotcha!" system meant to knock out the ballots the officials don't want to count.

Hillary Joins the Fray

What will the Clinton camp add to the recount? "Lawyers," said Fitrakis, though he's yet to see them. The Clinton campaign is apparently helping find one voter in each Pennsylvania county, as one is required in each jurisdiction to file for a recount of that state.

And What About That Hack Job?

Fitrakis is not looking for Russkies in the computer code. He says, "We're more concerned with the private companies that control the keys to the kingdom -- to match what's on paper to the official count." The "keys" are the little machines, memory cards and other electronic gewgaws that are used to suck the data from the voting machine -- which are carried off to another state for tabulation by a private contractor. Will these tabulations at each step match what the volunteers find in the on-the-ground recount?

One problem is that the tabulation software is "proprietary." A private company owns the code to the count -- and its leaders will fight fiercely, with GOP help, to keep the ballot-counting code their commercial secret.

And this describes PA's system:

"Push and Pray" Pennsylvania

In the end, the single biggest impediment to a full and fair recount is that 70 percent of Pennsylvania voters used what are called "Push and Pray" voting machines -- Direct Recording Electronic touch-screens. Push the screen next to your choice and pray it gets recorded. Pennsylvania is one of the only states that has yet to require some form of voter-verified paper audit trail that creates an ATM-style receipt.

Green Party files for Michigan recount:

Stein files for Michigan recount, cites blank votes

Stein said Wednesday the more than 75,000 blank votes in Michigan’s presidential results were a “red flag” that fueled her desire to seek a statewide hand recount of 4.8 million ballots.

The 75,335 ballots cast without a vote in the presidential contest were twice as many blank votes than the 2008 election and a 61 percent increase from 2012. Republican President-elect Donald Trump won by 10,704 votes over Democrat Hillary Clinton.

“Michigan has this very high level of under votes, that is, blank ballots. This is quite an unusual number,” Stein said Wednesday in an interview on WDET radio’s “Detroit Today.”
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/30/recount/94667998/

[Cog]

Jill Stein has no idea what she is talking about in reference to blank ballots. We used the exact same scanned ballots in Illinois and that is complete BS. I will explain why after observing early voting and election day voting as a poll watcher. But my steak dinner won't cook itself so back on here later.

[Cog]

OK my steak is resting so I will explain how the optically scanned paper ballots work in practice. If you have ever filled out a standardized test in school by filling in the bubbles it works just like that. Here is how the process works after the voter has filled in the ballot:

1) Voter takes ballot to the machine enclosed in a paper sleeve

2) An election judge, Democrat or Republican has the voter insert their sleeve into the machine. The machine grabs the paper ballot and then one of a few things happen

3) The machine accepts the ballot, the counter on the machine goes up one digit in count and the voted gets a "I voted" sticker.

) The machine throws a code that says the voter has not filled out the all the bubbles for the various elected offices. Remember, you are voting for all sorts of people on the ballot not just the president. At that point, the voter can take the ballot back to the booth and fill it in or hit the accept key on the machine to accept the ballot if they don't feel like voting for the next county dog catcher. The election judge manning the machine is forbidden to hit that accept key for the voter.

5) The machine throws a code indicating you have voted for more than one person for the same office. The machine won't accept that ballot. The ballot is then spoiled and put in an envelope and the voter is given a new ballot. This happens more frequently than you can imagine.

So when Jill Stein says there were 75,000 blank ballots, meaning nothing on them, she is full of shit. Can I believe a lot of people didn't mark anything on their ballots for president? Yes I can.

[dissident]

As usual the facts are all about details. The typical mass media consumer sap just goes by what sounds right. In other words, they are fresh meat to be manipulated at will.