[Plantagenet]

Thats OK. George Clooney later said it was wrong that the American system allowed him to hold such huge fund raisers

[Newfie]

Not hardly. Bernie is a communist. Why would I respect someone like that?

As opposed to the money grabbing Wall Stree boot lickers, ego maniacs, or religious fanatics?

All things being relative, this is a choice of spoilt fruit.

I was just reacting to how you spoke of the establishment candidates. Sounds like you don't like them much either.

While I do have the sense Sanders is the most principalled candidate I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't think the final selection will matter much at all. I don't share your fear if Socialisim or admiration of Capitalisim/Consumerisim. So I expect us to disagree on many points or perhaps more accurately, to react differently to various events/positions.

I do find the dynamics of the process interesting and perhaps somewhat telling about the American psyche. Not at all sure how this is going to turn out. But I do have a sense this may be an inflection point in American history. Just a gut feeling.

Right now I get the sense that a lot of folks are really POed at the system, they feel the system is rigged, that they don't really matter. As a group they don't agree on much by way of policy so they may not coalesce into any kind of political force. Then again, they might. There is an awful lot of political energy floating about, not well directed.

[radon1]

Not hardly. Bernie is a communist. Why would I respect someone like that?

Don't be a hypocrite. You are as anti-capitalist as it gets, yourself. Have no respect for yourself?

[Cog]

Not hardly. Bernie is a communist. Why would I respect someone like that?

Don't be a hypocrite. You are as anti-capitalist as it gets, yourself. Have no respect for yourself?

Where could you possibly get the idea I am anti-capitalist? Is there another Cog on this board that I don't know about?

[Plantagenet]

Bernie just asked all his followers to send in another $2.70 to his campaign so he could keep fighting Hillary for the D nomination.

Bernie asks his supporters to contribute $2.70 each

God bless Bernie. What a wonderful guy. And such a contrast from Hillary and her Hollywood fund raising dinner last week where the 1% paid $340,000 per ticket to come and give Hillary her marching orders, and even the guy who organized the fund raiser for Hillary said it was disgusting.


The Bernie Bros throw one dollar bills at Hillary to protest her disgusting fund raising practices

[Sixstrings]

Well, unfortunately, Bernie didn't do so well in New York.. I forget the numbers, but it was a clear win for Clinton. (and of course, he would really have to not only be winning here on out but win by +20 to make up the delegate gap).

Interestingly though, Bernie is still gaining on Clinton in general national polling. He's just 2 pts behind her now:

Poll: Sanders gains on Clinton, trails by 2 points
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/18/politics/poll-hillary-clinton-leads-bernie-sanders-by-2-points/

So, that's gonna sure be strange.. if the trend holds and he keeps gaining and eventually *overtaking* Clinton in the national polls, yet at the same time the thing will have been decided, the votes cast and Clinton has the delegates.

Could wind up being a convention where a majority are really for Sanders, but it's Clinton that won it.

He did everything right in his campaign, he turned out right about building up a movement gradually.. but he simply needed to be tougher on Clinton, in the campaign. He needed to have done some negative campaigning -- and it would have been true, it's not like he would have had to lie.

So here we are now, this odd situation.

Clinton's won the thing for sure now, the votes have been cast.. people just got hip to Bernie a bit too late, either after they already voted Clinton, or they didn't vote at all.

[vtsnowedin]

Did you notice how the Dems in New York closed registration to their closed party primary last October. Any person that became interested in Bernie this winter was shut out from voting for him Tuesday. Then there were thousands that were mysteriously purged from the Democratic voter rolls just prior to the primary. I'll bet you some headstones also voted for Hillary just like always.

[Sixstrings]

Did you notice how the Dems in New York closed registration to their closed party primary last October. Any person that became interested in Bernie this winter was shut out from voting for him Tuesday. Then there were thousands that were mysteriously purged from the Democratic voter rolls just prior to the primary. I'll bet you some headstones also voted for Hillary just like always.

Interesting point, vts, I didn't think about that. Effectively, most likely, quite a few potential Sanders voters couldn't vote because they'd have had to register so far ahead of time.

This is also why two of the Trump kids didn't vote. Ivanka was registered independent, and said NY Republican rules would have required her to change registration a year in advance.

[vtsnowedin]

Did you notice how the Dems in New York closed registration to their closed party primary last October. Any person that became interested in Bernie this winter was shut out from voting for him Tuesday. Then there were thousands that were mysteriously purged from the Democratic voter rolls just prior to the primary. I'll bet you some headstones also voted for Hillary just like always.

Interesting point, vts, I didn't think about that. Effectively, most likely, quite a few potential Sanders voters couldn't vote because they'd have had to register so far ahead of time.

This is also why two of the Trump kids didn't vote. Ivanka was registered independent, and said NY Republican rules would have required her to change registration a year in advance.

It is clear that both parties need to reform their delegate selection process. I think the leaders that come forward with the best solution to the problem will be the next generation of national leaders.

[Sixstrings]

It is clear that both parties need to reform their delegate selection process. I think the leaders that come forward with the best solution to the problem will be the next generation of national leaders.

Well, I definitely agree. Things are pretty fair in my state anyhow. Primary, no caucus. My only issue is they should have it open for independents too in both our primaries, D and R, but they're closed primaries.

Otherwise I'm happy with it -- we have easy mail in ballots, early voting, and not same day but at least it's very late registration / party change deadline (like a few weeks before election day).

These rules are different in each state. If people want them to change, they have to push for the pro-voter changes at the local party level and state law level.

Looks like the Colorado problem will be fixed and back to a primary in 2020:

Colorado returning to presidential primary

A bipartisan slate of state lawmakers announced plans Thursday to return to a presidential preference primary for 2020.

Colorado has simply outgrown precinct caucuses for the top office in the nation, lawmakers said. Last month’s caucuses drew complaints from party members in both camps. Democrats complained of long lines; Republicans griped that they weren’t taking a presidential poll.

“We’re going to replace long lines, bad parking and disenfranchising voters with a ballot in your mailbox,” said Rep. Alec Garnett, D-Denver.
http://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2016/04/21/colorado-returning-presidential-primary/83355990/

[vtsnowedin]

I want every delegate at the GOP convention to represent roughly the same number of Republican voters. Currently a delegate from a blue state represents a lot fewer Republicans then one from a red state.
Also every state should have a primary with the delegates awarded proportionately using real math rounded up to the nearest whole delegate. All those primaries should be open to all registered voters as that is when people are interested and might join the party or switch sides.

[Plantagenet]

Now the Koch Bros are looking at supporting Hillary Clinton in 2016.

charles-koch-hillary-clinton-white-house

Why should the Koch Bros or any other billionaire support an R if the R is going to lose? US demographics are changing so that a D is almost certain to win in 2016, so it makes more sense for the Koch Bros. to join all the other Billionaires putting money into the D candidate, especially when you've got a money-hungry candidate like Hillary up for sale.

[Sixstrings]

Well yeah, that ruins the "evil koch brothers" narrative if Charles Koch is endorsing Clinton.

Billionaire businessman Charles Koch said in an interview airing Sunday that “it’s possible” another Clinton in the White House could be better than having a Republican president.

To be FAIR though -- Charles is the more liberal, of the brothers.

[Plantagenet]

Well yeah, that ruins the "evil koch brothers" narrative if Charles Koch is endorsing Clinton.

Yup.

Billionaires who pay off Hillary to help them close factories in the US and ship off the jobs to Mexico and China are no longer evil. Giving money to Hillary washes all their sins away.

[Sixstrings]

Billionaires who pay off Hillary to help them close factories in the US and ship off the jobs to Mexico and China are no longer evil.

Well yeah, there's that too.

I actually don't know enough about the kochs to opine on it. I would say, #1 look at where they are donating their money, regardless of what they say.

#2 -- it's seems like Charles is the more liberal koch brother, but maybe it's the other one that controls the money and Charles gets an allowance or something.

Then, #3 -- I'd assume the kochs full well realize the same thing I do, that honestly there is no difference between Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush and John Kasich. If the latter two can't win, then YES.. republicans may admit that she's a pro establishment pro big business pro immigration pro wall street and pro defense and pro war Republican too!

Clinton even has a youtube video with all the times Republicans have praised her (mostly while she was senator from NY):

A Republican Salute to Hillary Clinton | The Briefing
https://youtu.be/9l4eZRLC34c

Koch Brothers, ready for Hillary?

Establishment Republicans, ready for Hillary?

Wall street, and government workers, and the 1%, ready for Hillary?

Anti-establishment Democrats, anti-establishment Republicans, anyone that likes net neutrality and 2nd amendment, all for Trump?

I've said this before. This year isn't R versus D -- it's establishment vs. change. Globalism, vs. pro America.

50% of Americans are fine with how things are and would like another 8 years of Obama administration; 50% are not happy, and don't want Clinton for eight years, if there's another choice.

Have a vote, count 'em up, see who's got 50% + 1.

[Newfie]

I think it's gonna end I pup being about who hates who more.

[Cog]

Liberal's minds have just exploded. Division by zero has been achieved. The Koch brothers are signaling, in not uncertain terms, that they do not want Trump and his tariffs messing with their business operation.

[Sixstrings]

Well, wasn't just Trump that won Indiana.. Bernie did too.

Voter breakdown is still showing a large age gap. Indiana voters 44 years old and under voted Sanders by 68%. Clinton has a similar gap with independents, with them going to Sanders by similar margin.

Sanders: Clinton team thinks race 'is over. They're wrong'

"I know that the Clinton campaign thinks this campaign is over. They're wrong," Sanders said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press from New Albany, Indiana. "Maybe it's over for the insiders and the party establishment but the voters today in Indiana had a different idea."

Sanders said he had no intention to drop out of the race and rejected the notion that his criticism of Clinton's record on issues like trade, campaign finance and the Iraq war would help Trump.
http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/b7572961055c450293d8804279aa4362/sanders-clinton-team-thinks-race-over-theyre-wrong

[Newfie]

Overall

Sanders 52.5%
Clinton 47.5%

Hardly a mandate for Clinton.

I think it also bodes poorly for her in November.

[Pops]

It is clear that both parties need to reform their delegate selection process.

Pretty sure the donorship of the D's are congratulating themselves on their victory. They have kept the oligarchs safe from democracy for another 4 years.
Which is the whole point.