Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 3

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 04 May 2016, 09:42:50

Pops wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:It is clear that both parties need to reform their delegate selection process.

Pretty sure the donorship of the D's are congratulating themselves on their victory. They have kept the oligarchs safe from democracy for another 4 years.
Which is the whole point.

They maybe counting their chickens before they hatch. Losing to Trump in the fall is quite possible with a candidate that barely gets half of her parties votes.
Consider the number of young voters voting in their first presidential election that see the super delegate process as rigged against them.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 14897
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Lore » Wed 04 May 2016, 09:57:34

vtsnowedin wrote:
Pops wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:It is clear that both parties need to reform their delegate selection process.

Pretty sure the donorship of the D's are congratulating themselves on their victory. They have kept the oligarchs safe from democracy for another 4 years.
Which is the whole point.

They maybe counting their chickens before they hatch. Losing to Trump in the fall is quite possible with a candidate that barely gets half of her parties votes.
Consider the number of young voters voting in their first presidential election that see the super delegate process as rigged against them.


Goes both ways, a lot of young voters also voted for Cruz.

So far, Bernie Sanders and Ted Cruz have scored with young voters, but each state will be different. Sanders isn't the only candidate earning Millennials' support. Young Republicans came out in record numbers to the Iowa caucus on February 1, and 15 percent of the state's caucusgoers were between the ages of 17 and 29. According to the CNN exit polls, most young Republican voters cast ballots for Cruz, with Marco Rubio taking a close second. In addition to passionately supporting the candidates they like, young people have also used the ballot box to send a message to candidates they don't support, said CIRCLE's director Kei Kawashima-Ginsberg. This may have been the case in South Carolina, where Donald Trump won the majority of voters of all age groups, except 17- to 29-year-olds.

"If young people come out in a large number to oppose [Trump], he could be in trouble, perhaps not in primaries but, if he is nominated, definitely in the general," she said.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... er-tuesday
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Wed 04 May 2016, 10:26:45

Pops - It is somewhat satisfying to see TPTB in both parties get some affirmation that it’s the voters that decide elections and not those big contributors. The chicken/egg argument has been waged for decades: do the big contributors determine the results or does the big money go to politicians that were favored to win even without those monies. This cycle, given then huge amount of monies and party support Bush received he was never in the running for a single day. IOW while the monies might help a candidate get his message out of the voters don’t like that message he still has no chance of getting elected. At the other extreme is Trump with zero big contributors (except for the MSM, of course) and yet he’ll be running for president.

Lots of wealthy conservatives and liberals may have just been put on notice that their opinions actually matter very little when it comes to election results regardless of how much they contribute. And perhaps that has been the case for a long time. Wouldn’t really be a bad course to see a lot of those contributions dry up since it might actually convince the voters that they are really in charge.

The other point I’d like to float is how completely the political opinions of most of the MSM has blinded them to the reality of how tens of millions of voters view the situation. A year ago no one in the MSM gave Trump any hope of surviving let alone getting the nomination. Which shows they had zero understanding of how tens of millions of voters actually feel. Trump is where he is today because he tapped into those feelings/frustrations. And while most of the folks in the MSM might not share those views they should have known how many folks did feel that way. But they were virtually clueless about the real situation.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11397
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Lore » Wed 04 May 2016, 11:02:25

The question I have is do they really share the views of these candidates, or are they just so dissatisfied with the status quo to the point where they will vote, even against their own interests, for someone who defies the party norms and the status quo? Where blind faith in this action will bring about the quick disruption of the establishment with magical results in their favor.

I think it's more a matter or our present day society and thinking. The age of the Internet where your wants will be met immediately. Where isolated thinking leaves little concern for others unless it also satisfies your needs. Where I want it now and want it my way has to happen at the speed of light.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Pops » Wed 04 May 2016, 11:05:47

Right you re ROCK.

I was wrong about the whole thing a year ago. I line up with Bern 95% according to one quiz. But I said Bernie wouldn't get squat and he did pretty good. Hopefully he does more than O did with the "movement" he's started.

I don't trust HRC any farther than I can throw her but since she is the consummate politician I expect her to go with the Democratic polls and D-leaning donors pretty much and not pretend to attempting consensus with a GOP that has gone off the deep end. Maybe she is the best we got.

The Party formerly known as Grand Old has convinced itself it is overthrowing the donorship... by electing a donor. I'd say good luck except the central conceit is in thinking eliminating government entirely will benefit them, the voters, as much as it would, say, someone who can buy a whole state. They should move to Kansas, the Somalia of America, The Galt's Gulch of the plains, for a taste, just to see if they are big enough to run with the Koch boys. LOL
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Wed 04 May 2016, 11:13:31

Lore - Hard to say. I think part of the dynamic grew out of a mob mentality: I might not agree with that politician but I'm pissed and want to set something on fire...even if it's the store where I buy my food .

But there's also the tapping into those frustrations and exploiting them...not uncommon for many politicians.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11397
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Pops » Wed 04 May 2016, 14:48:57

vtsnowedin wrote:[They maybe counting their chickens before they hatch.

May be. I'm making no predictions
How could I predict when Trump proves to me that I have no idea what a large percentage of people are thinking.
I obviously live in a whole different universe.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Wed 04 May 2016, 15:56:40

Trump gave a voice to people who felt powerless, angry, and abandoned by the Republican party. The more he was attacked by the media, the GOPe, the Dems, only served to validate the voter's thought that they were right to support Trump.

Trump is a master showman and manipulator of emotions. He does not have to show the political correctness and caution that a normal politician would have to show to keep their seat. I doubt whether Trump believes in anything he is spouting. But he understands people and can work them.

Something similar going on with the Dems. Anger and frustration over career politicians and an economy that is not providing the opportunities that us older guys took for granted. Sanders is giving that electorate a voice.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13416
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Lore » Wed 04 May 2016, 17:35:05

HA!... Trump has done everything, but work with anybody. That is his antiestablishment appeal.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Wed 04 May 2016, 23:45:16

I said work them not work with them. Two wholly different concepts. Trump is a master troll.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13416
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 07 May 2016, 20:24:56

Bernie campaigning in west virginia:

Bernie Sander Rally Charleston WV. (5-5-16)
https://youtu.be/xG2fkjML1GA


*Right at the beginning of that video*, Bernie is talking Trump's message. (was always Bernie's message too, but now he's really sounding like Trump, on the trade and jobs message, it's almost word for word)

He's talking about the exact same things -- nafta, the trade deals, and jobs going to China and Mexico.

This is Bernie's central core issue, this is his main thing. So, maybe Bernie supporters should keep an open mind about Trump. If Bernie can't go all the way, then the candidate to pick that banner up is actually Trump, not Clinton. Clinton is on the OPPOSITE side of Bernie's core message.

Nafta. Jobs. A lot more infrastructure spending. Minimum wage increase. Universal healthcare. ANTI big globalism wars. These are Sanders' positions, and they are Trump's too.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 10 May 2016, 03:45:24

California Loves Sanders

California is experiencing a tidal wave of new voter registrations in anticipation of the Democratic Primary on June 7th. First-time voters are taking advantage of a quicker online registration process. waving goodbye to the antiquated and often weeks-long snail-mail method. In the first three months of 2016, over 850,000 new registrations were submitted, making history in one of the nation’s most progressive states. ...

In a recent California poll of the newly registered voters, Sanders crushes Clinton with a 40-point advantage, grabbing 67% while she is at only 27%. In another recent CA poll, Sanders has a 77% to 18% lead with voters between the ages of 19 and 29, while voters in the 30-39 age category support him at a 56%-31% clip. Among those voters who have “no party preference,” Sanders enjoys a 10-point lead.
http://thebernreport.com/california-loves-sanders/
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 10 May 2016, 22:22:25

Hm, I'm not likin' Bernie's victory speech in Oregon.

It's just all focused on Trump, not talking about Clinton.

He's over the top in demagoguing against Trump (all identity politics stuff, and unfair exaggerations).

He also said he's still "in it to win it" though, so that's what's making the news. He did have a good win tonight. We'll see what happens in California.

I have to say, folks -- I won't be so interested in Bernie if it just becomes wingman for Clinton and it's just Bernie and Liz Warren getting farmed out to be over the top demagoguing about Trump.. when their real core issues are put by the wayside, by corporate Clinton.

P.S. I still like him, but tonight's speech just sounded like establishment and in the tank for Clinton, to me. I like him, but I tune him out when he talks about Trump. Just as I tune Trump out, when he is demagoguing about Bernie. :lol:

2nd P.S. -- CNN is reporting on "the defection of Sanders voters, to Trump"
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 11 May 2016, 08:44:35

Cog wrote:Trump gave a voice to people who felt powerless, angry, and abandoned by the Republican party. The more he was attacked by the media, the GOPe, the Dems, only served to validate the voter's thought that they were right to support Trump.

Trump is a master showman and manipulator of emotions. He does not have to show the political correctness and caution that a normal politician would have to show to keep their seat. I doubt whether Trump believes in anything he is spouting. But he understands people and can work them.

Something similar going on with the Dems. Anger and frustration over career politicians and an economy that is not providing the opportunities that us older guys took for granted. Sanders is giving that electorate a voice.


Just wanted to say I think you are spot on with this observation.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18510
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Lore » Wed 11 May 2016, 10:54:35

The electorate, for all their greed, is just being hornswoggled by carnival barkers.

Hillary croaks on like some lathargic dinasour of the past. Knowingly closer to the established party elites on both sides then her competitors.

Bernie's unrealistic vision is at least consistent if not totally naive.

As for Trump he's also just telling the room what they want to hear. Nothing more than a poor egotistical neo fanciest clone of Benito Mussolini. And we know what happened to him and his imperialistic dreams.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 14 May 2016, 17:49:59

Image

Welcome to a Bernie Sanders Wiccan ritual

Participants were “smudged,” meaning the smoke from the sweetgrass was wafted over them before they could enter the sacred circle and begin a Wiccan ritual to support Sanders ahead of Oregon’s primary on Tuesday.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-sanders-prayer-circle-20160514-snap-story.html


Article in the scramento bee, chastising Sanders for not bringing his movement around to back Hillary:

Bernie Sanders, the Democratic Party’s only hope

“Bernie!” she screamed until she was almost hoarse. “Bernie!” ...

Sadly, Bernie Sanders doesn’t seem to understand that anymore. He’s letting his ego get the best of him. He’s drinking his own Kool-Aid. He’s feeling his own Bern.

And his followers, well, he’s more of a brand than a fallible man to them at this point. He’s “Bernie, the righteous underdog,” not “Sanders, the career politician,” who has been in Congress since I was in junior high school.

They happily buy and sport T-shirts and hats bearing his caricature. They wag their index fingers and quote him. They see Bernie as a superhero for progressivism. But they forget that in comic books, superheroes understand that with great power, comes great responsibility.

Not so with Sanders. Not anymore.

On Monday, it was truly disappointing to watch as he shamelessly sold his followers a bill of goods.
http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/erika-d-smith/article77071207.html


What a mean spirited article that was. Sanders is hardly a "career politician," good grief. I already researched all this a long time ago -- it's Sanders that's the #1 lead supporter for protecting social security, in Congress. He leads the caucus on that. He's been on the right side of every progressive issue there is.

I saw a foxnews poll the other day, and even FOX viewers say that Bernie would do the most for the working and middle class.

The only thing to criticize Bernie about is that he's too nice -- "I won't ever run a negative ad" only works in Vermont. He needed to be just a BIT tougher and inflammatory and aggressive against Clinton, months ago, and he would have actually won this nomination.

He wouldn't have had to lie, either -- he just needed to talk about those emails, talk about the clinton foundation, talk about the fact that she'll just be bogged down in scandals for the next eight years. And talk about what a big huge Republican she really is -- that would have all been the truth, and it would have won him the nomination.

Conversely -- while he would not aggressively campaign against Clinton, neither does he seem willing to move his people over to her.

What he really needs to do at this point is leverage his political capital, and demand concessions from Clinton in exchange for his supporters' vote.

The Donors Who Love Bernie Sanders A Little Too Much
The FEC has notified the campaign that thousands of its 2.4 million contributors may be violating federal limits.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/the-bernie-sanders-donors-who-are-giving-too-much/482418/


That's an interesting story.. some of his small amount donors don't know that there's a $2,000 limit to campaign contributions and apparently "thousands" are giving too much and are past the legal limit. FEC is looking into it.



Bernie supporters don't seem to want to let go. They've started a #NeverHillary:



Bernie asks his supporters, "what is the truth?" And they say, "you." And then Bernie says to the crowd that he is "not their savior:"

Brutally Honest Bernie Sanders Tells His Supporters That He Is Not Their Savior

In the middle of his rally in North Dakota, Sanders asked what was the truth? A supporter shouted out, “You.” Sanders said, “No. That is exactly not the truth. The truth is you, not me. If there is any person here, any person here that thinks I’m coming to you as some kind of savior, that I’m going to do it all — all myself, you’re wrong. No president, not Bernie Sanders or anybody else, can do it alone. We don’t need a savior. We need a political movement.”
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/05/14/brutally-honest-bernie-sanders-tells-supporters-savior.html


Some conservatives are warning that even though he won't win the battle for the nomination, Bernie has already won the war -- and even worse, Trump is like Bernie Sanders is, and is making America too liberal:

Bernie Sanders may win after all, unless conservatives resist

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) will go down to defeat this year, he may win the longer war:

Some Democrat with big aspirations is going to start talking up “free” college education, “free” child care, “free” health care, and gargantuan expansions of entitlements. ...

It’s worse than that. That candidate has already arrived under the GOP banner — Donald Trump. Trump, we have argued, is more akin to Sanders than any other presidential candidate in either party. Trump also wants to give away stuff without paying for it — unreformed Social Security and universal health care, to name two ...

While Geraghty doesn’t get to foreign policy, Trump and Sanders are attached at the hip in that department as well. They view American leadership in the world as counterproductive, too expensive and unnecessary. ..

They are both unrepentant protectionists, indifferent to economic realities.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/05/13/bernie-sanders-may-win-after-all-unless-conservatives-resist/


Bernie Sanders March in San Diego
https://youtu.be/ej5JzqLaLV8


Bernie Sanders Supporters' Dreary Warning About a President Clinton
https://youtu.be/F186mSl2phw


Those are some smart common sense average joe voters. One says that Clinton isn't for ever doing anything, like raising minimum wage, unless it already gets done without her and then suddenly she's all for it.

Hillary Clinton Keeps Cashing In...From Republicans
https://youtu.be/QZ7CpvWb4PQ?t=67
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby careinke » Sun 15 May 2016, 01:14:06

I got my Washington primary ballot, and since all the Republican choices had all dropped out except Trump, I voted for Bernie. Figured I'd have some fun like the folks in WV did. I don't plan to vote for President in the General election.
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
User avatar
careinke
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4696
Joined: Mon 01 Jan 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 15 May 2016, 04:19:07

careinke wrote:I got my Washington primary ballot, and since all the Republican choices had all dropped out except Trump, I voted for Bernie. Figured I'd have some fun like the folks in WV did. I don't plan to vote for President in the General election.

Would you consider writing in Bernie in the general?
If 45 percent of the Democrats which are voting for him now join in with the 60 percent of the Republicans which are Never Trump he might pull it off.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 14897
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby careinke » Sun 15 May 2016, 21:16:11

vtsnowedin wrote:
careinke wrote:I got my Washington primary ballot, and since all the Republican choices had all dropped out except Trump, I voted for Bernie. Figured I'd have some fun like the folks in WV did. I don't plan to vote for President in the General election.

Would you consider writing in Bernie in the general?
If 45 percent of the Democrats which are voting for him now join in with the 60 percent of the Republicans which are Never Trump he might pull it off.


Nope
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
User avatar
careinke
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4696
Joined: Mon 01 Jan 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Bernie Sanders for President Pt. 2

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 18 May 2016, 05:22:27

Well, Bernie came in a close 2nd in Kentucky and won Oregon.

Image
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

PreviousNext

Return to North America Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests