[vtsnowedin]

Nope

I might. Vermont will certainly give it's three electoral votes to the democrat nominee so my voting for Trump or not will go unnoticed. A write in for Bernie instead of Hillary will make a statement that will be understood by the public much better then writing in the name of a conservative I think is competent to do the job.

[Sixstrings]

Bernie at a California rally:



This clip is making the rounds on tv news, Bernie is like Moses telling the DNC: "Open the doors, let the People IN."

Bernie Sanders - Dominguez Hills - Calls Out Democratic Party
https://youtu.be/Q3rEV0BLzLA

Debbie Wasserman-Schultz Attacks Bernie Sanders Over Nevada Chaos, Compares to Trump


https://youtu.be/ZwjBtOb1hAM

Sanders camp slams Debbie Wasserman Schultz for 'throwing shade'
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/bernie-sanders-debbie-wasserman-schultz-criticism-223318

‘This is Beneath You!’ Liberal Pundits Clash on CNN Over Bernie/DNC Fight
https://youtu.be/9V2Fp-t26SE

Bill Press says the DNC has been gaming everything for Hillary since day one, and was unfair to Martin O'Malley too.

He says that at the Democratic convention, while Bernie won't have enough pledged delegates to win the nomination.. Hillary Clinton may not have enough PLEDGED delegates, either.

So, it's all gonna be up to the superdelegates. This is contingent on how well Sanders may do in California, he could win enough to deny Clinton enough pledged delegates to go over the top.

[Newfie]

So you are saying a contested nomination?

I don't see how that works to Bernies advantage.

[AgentR11]

Superdelegates will vote Hillary. stop fantasizing some rebirth in democratic enthusiasm.

[Timo]

So you are saying a contested nomination?

I don't see how that works to Bernies advantage.

Agent is probably right about Hilary, but if it is a contested convention, Bernie can use his weight through his pledged delegates to alter the Democratic Platform to incorporate more of what he's been fighting for all along. That is why he will not drop out of the race. He knows he won't win, but by dropping out, he loses his ability to influence the Party Platform. Losing that ability is a bigger loss to him than not winning the nomination. DWS will not be able to ignore him and all of his delegates at the Convention.

[Lore]

Everybody knew the rules going in. If you don't want to play the game then don't enter it. Trump was all upset too till he won the presumptive nomination. Now you don't hear a peep about it.

[Sixstrings]

So you are saying a contested nomination?

I don't see how that works to Bernies advantage.

Yes, it could be headed for contested convention. Which isn't necessarily as dramatic as it sounds, it just is what it is. Same as might have happened on the R side -- no candidate having won enough pledged delegates to win the nomination.

With Democrats, they've got that massive chunk of superdelegates.. 550ish. Almost all have already pledged Clinton.

Superdelegates are politicians in office, retired ones, party activists / party bosses, and honorary things (example, Bill Clinton is one of the superdelegates)

However much contested the convention is, depends on whether those 550 superdelegates stick with Clinton, and however much the big half of that room that's all Bernie delegates raises a fuss about things.

Sanders Challenges DNC: "Open Your Doors," "Let The People In"
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/05/18/sanders_challenges_dnc_open_your_doors_let_the_people_in.html

Bernie Sanders vs. the Democrats
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-bernie-sanders-versus-democrats-20160518-story.html

"Bernie's victory was taken away after a closed door meeting..", "My father was a congressman for 8 years. and you know what? He ripped up his ballot and left, and he's a Hillary supporter" - Erin Bilbray, NV Super Delegate

[Sixstrings]

Bernie Sanders says that months ago during the Nevada campaign, shots were fired into his campaign office and also somebody broke in and ransacked an apartment used by his campaign staff:

Sanders: ‘Shots Were Fired Into My Campaign Office in Nevada’

“Within the last few days there have been a number of criticisms made against my campaign organization. Party leaders in Nevada, for example, claim that the Sanders campaign has a ‘penchant for violence.’

That is nonsense. Our campaign has held giant rallies all across this country, including in high-crime areas, and there have been zero reports of violence. Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change and it goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals.

But, when we speak of violence, I should add here that months ago, during the Nevada campaign, shots were fired into my campaign office in Nevada and apartment housing complex my campaign staff lived in was broken into and ransacked.

“If the Democratic Party is to be successful in November, it is imperative that all state parties treat our campaign supporters with fairness and the respect that they have earned.
http://www.press24.us/sanders-shots-were-fired-into-my-campaign-office-in-nevada/

Ralph Nader: Sanders Should Stay in Democratic Race, Is Only Losing Due to Anti-Democratic System
https://youtu.be/JPapfQ6yI3U?t=167

Nader says that Clinton is a corporatist and militarist, and the only reason she will win the nomination is because the sueprdelegates are her "cronies" and also that the primaries were closed to independents.

If independents could vote in all D primaries, then Bernie Sanders would be the nominee right now.

Nader also says that all Clinton does is "sweet talk the public, trying to mimic Bernie Sanders" and that recent wall street journal reports show that she's taking record contributions from bankers (more than all other candidates combined).

[vtsnowedin]

By my count ,as of this morning, Bernie has to win 50 percent of the remaining delegates that are up for grabs ,which he is very likely to do or better ,AND convince 390 of the super delegates to switch sides before the convention. The convention is still a long ways away. Time enough for an indictment to come down about those Emails, Time enough for Trumps campaign to muck rake all of her past scandals and failures. If she is not solidly ahead of Trump in the polls on the eve of the convention watch the rats abandon the sinking Hillary ship.

[Newfie]

Trump polls better against Hillary than against Bernie. Also he can't get exBerners if Bern isn't ex, the f he is the candidate. Will any Hillary supporter vote for Trump over Bernie? Dont think so.

I can't see Trump smearing Hilary badly until after the convention. Then all hell breaks loose.

[vtsnowedin]

Trump polls better against Hillary than against Bernie. Also he can't get exBerners if Bern isn't ex, the f he is the candidate. Will any Hillary supporter vote for Trump over Bernie? Dont think so.

I can't see Trump smearing Hilary badly until after the convention. Then all hell breaks loose.

He is not smart enough to wait.

[Newfie]

Perhaps.

[Sixstrings]

Some recent bernie headlines..

Bernie Sanders' Marriage of Convenience With Democrats Fraying
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/bernie-sanders-marriage-convenience-democrats-fraying-n576506

Notice the in-the-tank-for-the-establishment tone. Like Bernie was just a "marriage of convenience," and "not a REAL Democrat."

Yet anyone that knows anything about Democrats, knows that Bernie is the heart and SOUL of the Democrats -- progressives. And has been, for many years.

There's two wings of the Democratic Party. There's the corporatist / wall street center-rights.. and then there's the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party (as howard deen once called it; the base).

The vote as it stands is split close to down the middle. Clinton has about 12 million popular votes. And Bernie has 10 million. Again, if all D primaries had been open to independents then BERNIE would have won all of them -- those primaries shouldn't have been closed primaries, since SO MANY people are registered I these days, and this is also the very vote that Democrats NEED to win the WH.

So why eschew independents, when here they were, liking a real deal Democrat and progressive?

The media is in the tank for Clinton, and they talk about Bernie and his voters like they do not matter.

NYT headline (they've always been solid pro Clinton):

Bernie Sanders, Eyeing Convention, Willing to Harm Hillary Clinton in the Homestretch
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/us/politics/bernie-sanderss-campaign-accuses-head-of-dnc-of-favoritism.html

So isn't that angle interesting.. it's just all Bernie's fault, that he won't bring his half of the D party over to Clinton. And nothing is her fault; she's against $15 minimum wage, yet that's Bernie's fault and not hers. She's against any significant climate change stuff -- yet that's Bernie's fault, not hers. She's against any significant student debt / college cost relief -- yet again, that's Bernie's fault.

Why is it that Clinton isn't expected to move toward the BERNIE side, in a real way, if she wants the Bernie voters?

It's a lot of people. Bernie got almost as many votes as Trump. Ten million peopled voted Sanders so far.

Anybody who is anybody, and registered D, and young enough to not qualify for senior coffee discount.. they pretty much all voted Bernie.

This is the FUTURE of the Democratic Party. It's the activist wing of it, too. It's got all the energy -- not the Clinton side.

So how can they just ignore it, and nominate someone that's got so much baggage and doesn't really represent the spirit of the party? And it's an outsider year.. the other side has Trump, and that's what D's need too.

They ought to nominate Sanders, to beat Trump.

Which is actually the original purpose of superdelegates -- to weigh in on the side of a candidate that can win the general election.

The purpose of superdelegates is to prevent a McGovern, that can't win the general. But Sanders isn't McGovern -- it's CLINTON that is McGovern, this year. Establishment is out, voters have had it.. if D's want to win, then they need an anti-establishment candidate.

[Sixstrings]

Defiant and determined to transform the Democratic Party, Senator Bernie Sanders is opening a two-month phase of his presidential campaign aimed at inflicting a heavy blow on Hillary Clinton in California and amassing enough leverage to advance his agenda at the convention in July — or even wrest the nomination from her.

Advisers to Mr. Sanders said on Wednesday that he was newly resolved to remain in the race, seeing an aggressive campaign as his only chance to pressure Democrats into making fundamental changes to how presidential primaries and debates are held in the future.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/us/politics/bernie-sanderss-campaign-accuses-head-of-dnc-of-favoritism.html

Bernie Sanders in San Jose - speech finale
https://youtu.be/jZS8fqq-ims

https://youtu.be/7Hn1W23KdaQ

The math is in Hillary Clinton's favor. But there's still a huge passion gap

Statistician Nate Silver sought to lend some perspective to the fever dream, tweeting: “After tonight, Sanders will need to win the remaining states by ~35% to claim a pledged delegate majority.”

But on the ground in California, nobody was listening. They were too busy gripping their signs, cheering, feeling the Bern, an enthusiasm the Clinton campaign has struggled to stoke throughout the campaign.

“I come from the working class of this country, and I will be damned if we will allow the Republican party, whose job is to represent the rich and the powerful, to win the votes of working-class Americans,” Sanders said to such zealous applause that he was forced to stop speaking for a stretch.

When he resumed, he promised the campaign would see “every last vote” was counted until the primaries end on 14 June. Then they would take the fight all the way to the convention to make sure the vision of social, economic, racial and environmental justice is seen.

And that, in a flash, is why Clinton is still competing at this late date against Sanders. She stripped away his best talking points Tuesday – from May-mentum to a strong mandate in the west – but still he had 20 others up his sleeve, each more heartfelt than the last.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/18/hillary-clintons-democrats-nomination-bernie-sanders

[Subjectivist]

Voters supporting Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders have united against a common enemy they’ve deemed more detrimental to their candidate’s success than even rival Hillary Clinton: Democratic National Committee chairwoman and Florida lawmaker Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

For Sanders supporters, Wasserman Schultz represents everything they dislike about their party’s policies. For example, they believe that former Secretary of State Clinton’s victories are attributable to the exclusion of independent voters and the “rigged” policy of superdelegates.

Back in February, Schultz told CNN host Jake Tapper, “Unpledged delegates exist, really, to make sure that party leaders and elected officials don’t have to be in a position where they are running against grassroots activists.”

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/05 ... n-schultz/

[Sixstrings]

She ought to step down, she's been upopular for a while now. And she had problems with tulsi gabbard and that whole thing, saying "maybe you shouldn't come to the debate." Wasserman schultz isn't an effective party chairperson.

[vtsnowedin]

I've been watching the media beat on Berni this weekend for carrying on the fight and hindering Hillary's fight against Rrump.They really don't have a valid argument considering how long Hillary stayed in the race in 2012 but that hasn't stopped them from carrying on like Bernie is the antichrist.
But they should consider that although Bernie at 72 will not be around for another election cycle (at least not as a viable contestant) the ten million voters that have voted for him and his positions will be. That is 10 million to Hillary's 13 million and ignores several million independents that can't vote in closed primaries.
The party needs to listen to the positions of those ten million and invite in those independents or they will find themselves in as much disarray as the GOP.
The super delegate rules have been exposed as rigging the system in favor of the oligarchs of the party that disenfranchise rank and file voters more effectively then GOP voter ID laws as they let people vote but then make that vote not count for anything.

[Sixstrings]

They really don't have a valid argument considering how long Hillary stayed in the race in 2012 but that hasn't stopped them from carrying on like Bernie is the antichrist.

Right, I remember that went on forever it seemed like, Clinton and Obama. She wouldn't drop out, it went on close to the end. I think Clinton actually had more popular votes than O did, and he had more delegates or something like that, unless I'm mistaken.

In Bernie's case -- he represents a real change in the party, real policy differences. He's got every right to stay until the end.

What SHOULD be happening is a negotiation process. Not just the platform, but honestly Clinton should be taking on some of his specific policies -- to therefore get his supporters on board with her, and for him to be able to fully endorse her and campaign for her. (Bernie's a good guy, if Clinton really came out for $15 minimum wage and something specific on eco policy and wall street reform, then he's about issues.. he'd campaign for her, if she could change and become "the real thing" too).

Rather than compromise and negotiation to get his and his supporters' endoresement, I guess establishment D's really don't even want the Bernie people to be part of the convention process?

Bernie Sanders Steps Up Feud With Democratic Establishment
Sanders has ignored growing Democratic calls to step aside and repeated his vow to stay in the race until the party convention.

“Do I think she is the kind of chair that the Democratic Party needs? No, I don’t,” Sanders told CBS’ “Face the Nation.”

“Frankly, what the Democratic Party is about is running around to rich people’s homes and raising obscene sums of money from wealthy people. What we need to do is to say to working-class people – we are on your side,” he said.

The defiant tone by Sanders, a U.S. senator from Vermont, has worried some Democrats anxious to see Clinton begin to unify the party and turn her attention to an election showdown with Trump.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-democratic-party_us_5742273ee4b045cc9a7143f8

It seems to me like they aren't giving him the respect that he's got half the vote and really she's just 100 earned delegates ahead of him, that's close.

[vtsnowedin]

Well unless the voters in California go for Berni in a very big way we will be looking at Hillary vs. Rrump and not much else will matter until after the election. If she wins they will try to push Bernie and his voters off into history but if she loses they will have a "where did we go wrong ?" moment that will be interesting to watch. Perhaps then they will have the debates about how to actually achieve what Bernie proposes and how to pay for it. As that progresses I'll be looking to see who comes forward as a leader on that side of the party as Bernie will have to pass the torch to a new generation sooner then he'd like. At the moment I can't think of anyone that would be on his short list for second in command.

[Newfie]

My gut feel is Trump has a much better chance against Clinton than Bernie. IMHO there is something about Hillary that wears on you, gets on your nerves. The more we hear her, or see her the less attractive she is.

Also, as bad as Trump is, he is a vote against the establishment and excites passion. I can see a lot of Bernie supporters either not voting or swinging to Trump.