[onlooker]

I thought this essay or article by Guy Mcpherson captures the precise tone of the times we live in. Both in looking back, at the present and the future. What went so wrong? Fire, Language, Civilization. These are some suggestions. Well then, it seems our success contained the seeds of our ruin. Which is to say, as some here sustain, we cannot help but be what we are and thus have reached this impasse. Here is full content "AN ANTONIO Belize—(Weekly Hubris)—February 2017—I have a few suggestions, if you’re interested. But first, please accept an apology on behalf of my self-absorbed species. We left a helluva mess. Sorry about that.

The mess is so bad, I’m surprised you’re here. We left a small world in our wake, populated with microbes, bacteria, fungi, and similar, “simple” life forms.

You must’ve brought what you need to survive. Maybe it’s several million turns around the sun after the year we called 2018. Probably you’re self-reliant and way late to our little extinction party.

Earth’s final civilization turned out great for a few people. Hot showers and bacon were the highlights for many of us. In retrospect, destroying our only home for a few bucks and a BLT wasn’t the swiftest plan we could’ve developed. To the “credit” of our species, most people were too ignorant and too stupid to evaluate evidence, so perhaps only the small minority of us sounding the alarm are to blame.

Anyway, back to that unsolicited advice. I have little to say and I’m hardly a reliable source. After all, my species went extinct at a young age. I predicted and documented our fall, but I didn’t prevent it. Too late, I realized the untoward behavior of the civilized members of my species could not be swayed by rational thinking.

If you’re reading these words and comprehending their meaning, it’s too late for my premier bit of advice: do not use written language. It’s temptingly beautiful, like a flower with thorns or a venomous invertebrate. But using language, like using thorns or venom, is a short-term proposition. And death can result from a single contact with any of the three.

If you come across anything flammable, run away. Somebody in your group is bound to harness the fire, at least for a while. Shortly thereafter, you’ll all discover fire cannot be harnessed for long. This white-hot lesson will come after the exam.

Language and fire are the two major forces leading to destruction of habitat. Without them, you’ll last long. With them, you’ll soon be gone. I suspect my warning is too late for either of the two.

Beyond language and fire, recognize that there are a few other factors that can contribute to your early demise. Civilization comes immediately to mind and, as with language and fire, I suspect I’m too late. Civilization is nearly as tempting as language and fire.

Civilization, to be brief, means storing food. Once the food is stored, it’s easy to keep from some people. So it’s locked up and ultimately assigned monetary value. A few blinks of the eyes later, you’re all dead.

Contrary to one of the overriding messages of civilization, there are no others. If you contemplate idolizing, worshiping, insulting, or attacking others, throw yourself into a volcano before the idea catches on. The others you believe you see are, in fact, the various forms of you. Treat them—and by them, I mean yourself—as you’d treat yourself, not like you treat the pocket knife you borrowed from your cousin. Treat them with dignity, respect, and love.

Remember that everybody dies and that all species go extinct. See. Smell. Taste. Listen. Touch. Breathe. Learn. You want more? Really? To what end, beyond a quick and violent end?

Like every living being, you have needs. Unlike many living beings, you also have desires that you are able to recognize. Learn to distinguish the needs from the wants and focus on securing the former. If you don’t obsess about your desires, you’ll be happier. And the beings that aren’t plagued with desires—the reflections of yourself—will persist a while longer. So will you and those you care about.

Care more than you believe is possible. Wear your proverbial heart on your proverbial sleeve. Let it get smashed. Love, and suffer as a result. Trust me: it’s all worth it. The going up is worth the coming down. The pain of living—really living, not merely making a living—is occasionally rewarded by joy.

I doubt you can find joy. If you’re lucky and attentive, it might find you.

If joy finds you, revel. Embrace the moment. Remember it. You might even jot down a note. If ever you stumble across the opportunity to create the conditions that brought you joy, seize the moment on behalf of someone else. After all, that someone else is really another form of you, longing for a moment of joy to relieve his or her suffering. If you are given the rare privilege of creating joy for another, and you don’t pursue it, please take advantage of that volcano mentioned above.

Finally, remember this: moments matter. They’re all you’ll ever have. They are gifts of enormous magnitude. Be grateful. Make them count."

[onlooker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk3QsGzAjKI
Basically, postulating that both our advanced abstract cognitive skills along with our primitive urges are what has led us astray. Solution?

[Newfie]

Pstarr,

I just wanted to say that I think there is much truth to what you wrote. Not an especially encouraging thought, but truthful.

[Cog]

Ya'll be a morose group. Be of good cheer. We are going to be around to see what happens. If anything.

[Tanada]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk3QsGzAjKI
Basically, postulating that both our advanced abstract cognitive skills along with our primitive urges are what has led us astray. Solution?

https://youtu.be/-bGw5HYrkzQ

[onlooker]

Okay. Yes, the three elements mentioned did have positive productive utility for us at different points in the past. However, I submit that they are mostly counterproductive to the threats and challenges we face together as a species now. First Tribalism. We now all face common threats as a species that require unprecented cooperation among everyone. Climate change, nuclear war and pandemics as well as general environmental deterioration all overlap any boundaries and threaten everyone everywhere. They are international problems and thus they require tribalism to cede to a one human species and one planet paradigm. Now, as for short term thinking that in fact has already led us down the road to Collapse. So, we did not heed the evolving and worsening problems with overpopulation and resources attrition among others nor of course greenhouse gas warming the Earth. Finally, wishful thinking while it has some useful aspects to it is counterproductive to humans understanding the full extent of the daunting reality which they confront. We cannot wishful think our way out of this. We must endeavor to empirically and logically find what solutions they're are and adopt them. No amount of wishful thinking ever solved a difficult problem. It can be counterproductive also by ascribing to our technological prowess Godlike capabilities. Rather practical, logical and honest forethought. Well that is it for now.

[Tanada]

Okay. Yes, the three elements mentioned did have positive productive utility for us at different points in the past. However, I submit that they are mostly counterproductive to the threats and challenges we face together as a species now. First Tribalism. We now all face common threats as a species that require unprecented cooperation among everyone. Climate change, nuclear war and pandemics as well as general environmental deterioration all overlap any boundaries and threaten everyone everywhere. They are international problems and thus they require tribalism to cede to a one human species and one planet paradigm. Now, as for short term thinking that in fact has already led us down the road to Collapse. So, we did not heed the evolving and worsening problems with overpopulation and resources attrition among others nor of course greenhouse gas warming the Earth. Finally, wishful thinking while it has some useful aspects to it is counterproductive to humans understanding the full extent of the daunting reality which they confront. We cannot wishful think our way out of this. We must endeavor to empirically and logically find what solutions they're are and adopt them. No amount of wishful thinking ever solved a difficult problem. It can be counterproductive also by ascribing to our technological prowess Godlike capabilities. Rather practical, logical and honest forethought. Well that is it for now.

Rather than flights of fancy about changing the way humans behave on an instinctive level I believe you would have a much greater impact if you harnessed those instincts. They are not going away any time soon, fighting them is an unwinnable war. Find a way to use those instincts to achieve your end goals instead of disparaging them and you will have success beyond your fondest dreams.

[Newfie]

Ya'll be a morose group. Be of good cheer. We are going to be around to see what happens. If anything.

When someone has cancer they have a certain entitlement to be morose about the future. Moreso when it is spread to your children.

It's not the only appropriate emotion, but it has its place at times.

[JV153]

Ecology is a scary subject. Never taught in primary or secondary schools. It would allow the masses to cut through the bullshit.

It was in the school I went to, not in detail but some, in fact it was taught us in secondary school - grade 7 - public school in Canada.

[hydrolog]

I am really curious about one thing - how the world would like if there will be no more petroleum.

[onlooker]

I think this is a good place to put this.
http://carolynbaker.net/2017/05/08/is-t ... n-baker-2/
Is There Life Before Death? By Carolyn Baker
As we continue caught up in the problems that beset humanity now and going into the future lets not forget to live our life as best as possible in the present. Some nice ideas about that in this linked article

[Plantagenet]

If you’re reading these words and comprehending their meaning, it’s too late for my premier bit of advice: do not use written language. It’s temptingly beautiful, like a flower with thorns or a venomous invertebrate. But using language, like using thorns or venom, is a short-term proposition. And death can result from a single contact with any of the three.

If you come across anything flammable, run away. Somebody in your group is bound to harness the fire, at least for a while. Shortly thereafter, you’ll all discover fire cannot be harnessed for long. This white-hot lesson will come after the exam.

Language and fire are the two major forces leading to destruction of habitat. Without them, you’ll last long. With them, you’ll soon be gone.

Give up fire and language? Thats pretty harsh. Lets be more sensible then that.

Its quite possible to have language and fire and also have lots of habitat. You can even have cars and SUVs and airplanes and grocery stores and shopping malls and still have lots of habitat.

All you have to do is protect as much as possible of the habitat beyond the areas where humans live.

Put the land into National Parks and national preserves and state parks and city parks. Keep as much of it as possible as wilderness.

The US invented the idea of National Parks in 1872. Today the western US and particularly Alaska are clear examples of how national parks can preserve millions and millions of acres of natural habitat, with natural salmon runs and whales and bears and rivers wth no dams and forests that go on forever and wildlife and exquisite natural places.

We just need a lot more of it everywhere else. We need to save the remaining wilderness and habitat of the world, and "rewild" other places and return them to being natural habitat.

God---if only I were King. I'd fix it up right.

Cheers!


In wilderness is the salvation of the world ---- Henry David Thoreau

[DesuMaiden]

The truth is, the survivors of this wretched civilization will most likely repeat the mistakes of their ancestors (which would include us and our ancestors). I don't think there will ever be an ecologically sustainable civilization...that is nothing more than a pipe dream. Any future humans will continue to wreak whatever little of the biosphere that remains. Humans have become little more than a cancer on this planet. We destroy almost everything we touch. Ecological sustainability will never be achievable for the entirety of humanity although I still think it is worth preserving useful scientific knowledge on how we destroyed ourselves...although truth is most of the useful artifacts of humanity will probably perish over time, and what remains are the silly superstitious cults of religious fanatics. Religion is unlikely to go away anytime although most useful scientific knowledge ( ranging from how to build a computer, how the brain works, climate change, ecology and etc) is probably going to disappear within the next century or two. An utopia society simply isn't possible due to human nature and the laws of physics, chemistry and biology and etc.

[Ibon]

Civilization itself is self perpetuating. If there is a means to preserve the centre at the expense of the periphery it will be taken.

Past civilizations only ever had enough available energy to enable a tiny elite (the center) to participate in art, science, technology supported by the periphery (peasant class).

Currently we have a civilization where there has been enough available energy to enable a vast population to have wealth. This wont last and the periphery will decline as we hold on to a small center.

This makes ecological sense.

Humans do not handle opulence well.

[Ibon]

The truth is, the survivors of this wretched civilization will most likely repeat the mistakes of their ancestors (which would include us and our ancestors). I don't think there will ever be an ecologically sustainable civilization...

It's really about population control. If we had a small human population the consumption per capita could be quite high and we could be ecologically sustainable.

This civilization is only wretched because of the indolence of abundance.

[ralfy]

It's really about population control. If we had a small human population the consumption per capita could be quite high and we could be ecologically sustainable.

This civilization is only wretched because of the indolence of abundance.

It might not be high as the industrial civilization that allows for high production per capita involves large numbers of workers.

[DesuMaiden]

The truth is, the survivors of this wretched civilization will most likely repeat the mistakes of their ancestors (which would include us and our ancestors). I don't think there will ever be an ecologically sustainable civilization...

It's really about population control. If we had a small human population the consumption per capita could be quite high and we could be ecologically sustainable.

This civilization is only wretched because of the indolence of abundance.

Of course, realistically, in reality, humans don't like to control or limit their reproduction, as the overpopulated state of many countries in this world reflects. Very few countries have actually promoted the idea of limiting their reproduction to stop or reverse population growth. In fact, some countries, like Canada, are promoting excessive reproduction for the sake of growing their population and thus promoting economic growth. It is ridiculous really. There is absolutely no country in the world that would benefit from population growth because the truth is the more people you have the more problems you will also have. And these problems are truly appauling ones like resource scarcity, poverty, overcrowding, crime, war, pollution, biodiversity loss, famine, disease, traffic congestion, and worse a potential die-off once the society collapses under the immense strain of its excessive population.

Think of it this way. The Earth's resources is like a finite pie. Each person has a share of it. Some people have a larger share of it than others; typically people in the developed nations have a larger share than people in the developing nations. If you increase the number of people, the finite resource pie of the Earth has to be divided amongst more people. So that each person ends up with a smaller share of the pie whenever the population grows.

Given that each DAY the world's total human population increases by an astonishing 200,000 people, there is an ever-shrinking amount of resources left for an ever-increasing population of humans who willl inevitably intensify their competition over the ever-shrinking resources.

Even if there were less people on the planet than there are right now, the finite (and often nonrenewable and nonrecyclable) resources will eventually be exhausted, and industrial civilization will cease to exist one day. But that day would be delayed compared to the situation where there are more people on this planet, consuming these resources at a faster rate until the resources are depleted and gone at a faster rate. Which is what we have now.