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Why do doomers censor hope?

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby eclipse » Fri 24 Feb 2017, 21:55:18

Hi all,
I noticed some circular arguments in Alice Friedman's post on coal power plants dependency on rail.
http://energyskeptic.com/2017/interdepe ... p-running/

I typed it up, and hit submit. It's still awaiting moderation, since ...

Eclipse says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
February 18, 2017 at 2:34 pm


I copied my comment across, and with a few tweaks posted this to my blog. Probably not my best writing, but censorship does get me a little cranky.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/2017/0 ... r-doomers/

With all the amazing new technologies like breeder reactors that eat nuclear waste and the other stuff my blog covers (see my sig), why are doomers so keen to ban this stuff? Does it mess up their Mad Max scenarios for the future? What gives? Why are they addicted to unnecessary, unfounded predictions of doom for the future? Why do they pretend they absolutely *know* what is going to happen? Do they *want* to give kids suicidal thoughts? I know of one guy on an Australian peak oil forum (ROEOZ on Yahoo email lists) who committed suicide. His inbox smacked him in the face with continual DOOM every day.

I don't know the future either. With Trump in power, our main cities could vaporise in huge white flashes. Or we could have a city on Mars within a few decades, and be on our way to a clean energy revolution here on earth. There are just so many huge industries jostling for power and just beginning to rev up, I'm not going to make predictions. But I will speak for hope. For possibility. Not for the certainty of collapse. That's a pernicious meme, and kills young people.

I'm just wondering what happened to people like Alice Friedman who seem to be intent on becoming 'prophets' of doom, and want to censor any good news that might hit their blogs.
Dr James Hansen recommends breeder reactors that convert nuclear 'waste' into 1000 years of clean energy for America, and can charge all our light vehicles and generate "Blue Crude" for heavy vehicles.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Fri 24 Feb 2017, 22:27:44

There's nothing new about breeder reactors but the US and other Western countries have essentially given up on advancing nuclear power. Western countries are investing very little in developing alternatives to conventional pressurized light water reactors. China is taking the lead in nuclear power development in pursuing several different reactor technologies including an advanced heavy water reactor that can make use of expended fuel from light water reactors. I am very frustrated by this situation -- I live in Ontario, Canada where 60% of our electricity is generated by CANDU heavy water reactors. We've lost the ability to build new reactors though we still have the technology to refurbish our existing reactors.
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby eclipse » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 00:23:59

I hear you on the West! The irony is China will be selling them back to us one day. That doesn't mean we should wait: the west could build a bunch of AP1000's or whatever the new standard becomes until China are ready to fully commercialise their new breeders. Rumours are China will mass produce breeder nukes cheaper than coal in just 6 years!
http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/06/china- ... ng-at.html

My favourite Chinese nuclear program is, of course, the Molten Salt Reactor problem. I mean, come on: a reactor that requires power to GO, not to COOL? A fuel that cannot melt down because it is already a liquid? A fuel that, in a power failure, drains away and hardens up? A fuel that would not go very far even if the reactor were hit by a missile because it is chemically bonded to the liquid salts that crystalise at 450degrees C? That's my kind of reactor.

But let's not forget Russia.

Russia had the old BN-350, and then built the Bn-600. Note: the Japanese paid Russia a billion for the technical specs on their old BN-600, and “The operation of the reactor is an international study in progress; Russia, France, Japan, and the United Kingdom currently participate.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BN-600_reactor

They just opened the BN-800 (and sold the plans to China).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BN-800_reactor

They are building 11 new normal reactors over the next few years, including 2 whopping great BN-1200's!
http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NP-Ru ... 81602.html

So I guess, to get back on topic, when there's all this potential for amazing technologies that can generate abundant RELIABLE clean energy, why do doomers censor?
Dr James Hansen recommends breeder reactors that convert nuclear 'waste' into 1000 years of clean energy for America, and can charge all our light vehicles and generate "Blue Crude" for heavy vehicles.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 01:13:48

eclipse wrote:-snip-

So I guess, to get back on topic, when there's all this potential for amazing technologies that can generate abundant RELIABLE clean energy, why do doomers censor?


Because nothing, nothing whatsoever, has yet been found that will replace oil, coal, and gas. That means that most humans will die from the lack of abundant cheap energy when the fossil fuels become uneconomical to extract.
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby eclipse » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 02:33:32

Except today's nukes can be mass produced, and then tomorrow's breeders will eat all the waste.
Nukes have a high enough EROEI to recharge EV's, with electric vehicles replacing all lighter trucks and cars. Diesel dependent heavy vehicles and long-haul freight can run on rechargable boron or even synthetic diesel from seawater. At scale and volume and pretty much at price. So I don't know how you came to that conclusion.
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 02:43:07

When EVs can replace ICE vehicles, they will. Today they are for enthusiasts only.

As for nuclear power, I am a fan. However, most people are not, and the hysteria has just about killed nuclear power.
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby MD » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 03:16:14

KaiserJeep wrote:
eclipse wrote:-snip-

So I guess, to get back on topic, when there's all this potential for amazing technologies that can generate abundant RELIABLE clean energy, why do doomers censor?


Because nothing, nothing whatsoever, has yet been found that will replace oil, coal, and gas. That means that most humans will die from the lack of abundant cheap energy when the fossil fuels become uneconomical to extract.


Yep. That's the short answer, and the one that most can't cope with. And let's not forget the myriad of other products that come from fossil fuels. Face reality: Humanity is a blooming flower on the face of the earth. The bloom has passed its prime.

(KJ check your inbox)
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby eclipse » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 06:09:14

I've not seen evidence, just assertions.
Dr James Hansen recommends breeder reactors that convert nuclear 'waste' into 1000 years of clean energy for America, and can charge all our light vehicles and generate "Blue Crude" for heavy vehicles.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby Cog » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 07:20:38

Doomers tend to seek out others of like mind to reinforce whatever end state that they believe in. Data which does not support their vision of doom is angrily received. On many sites on the internet this generally results in censorship or a ban. When you get in between a man and his doom, he won't thank you for it.

Most people would be pleasantly relieved if a doctor told them a tumor was benign and not cancerous as they feared. The doomer takes no relief when facts contrary to his doom vision are presented. It only makes him angry.

I find doomers, and their companions the conspiracy theorists, a fascinating study in human psychology.
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 09:23:17

eclipse wrote:I've not seen evidence, just assertions.


Let's be brutally honest here. There is nothing whatsoever that I could link you to that would constitute evidence in the legal sense. It is an extremely important topic that has approximately six billion human lives hanging on it. Just like any and all "evidence" that supports or disproves Climate Change, Anthropogenic Global Warming, the misogynistic acts of Donald Trump and Bill Clinton, etc. etc.

Because at least 99% of what you read on the Internet is total and complete BS. You cannot make important decisions based on BS, and we all know it. If you want to link to a news source that has actual journalistic standards in place, try to do so.

One other point about stuff you read online, here or anywhere else. Some people will expend enormous amounts of energy and thought creating fanciful constructs such - as for example - a mathematical model that predicts the end of oil. All of that effort - all of it - is wasted, when any part of that model depends upon human behavior, because there does not exist a calculus of human behavior.

Think upon these topics, before you reply.
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby ralfy » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 10:00:48

It has to do with the realities of limits to growth:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... g-collapse

That is, biocapacity (which includes availability of oil and various minerals) is limited, but the world population continues to grow. That means ecological footprint per person has to remain small in order to ensure optimal health.

Unfortunately, population continues to rise, which means footprint per capita has to decrease. It has to decrease further given long-term effects of environmental damage and global warming.

Meanwhile, the global economy on which that population depends is capitalist, which means footprint per capita has to keep growing in order to ensure that much of the wealth (which consists primarily of numbers in hard drives) of the rich (which controls most of that economy) continues to grow. The same goes for both the middle class and those who want to be part of the middle class:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-22956470
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby Cog » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 12:21:34

Can always count on ralfy to give us the socialist/Marxist talking points. Straight from the BBC.
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 13:27:20

eclipse wrote:With all the amazing new technologies like breeder reactors that eat nuclear waste and the other stuff my blog covers (see my sig), why are doomers so keen to ban this stuff?


?????

What are you talking about? Do you have a real world example to support your complaint?

IMHO Doomers are among the ones pointing out the need for new technologies to reduce CO2 emissions, replace oil, etc. etc.

Cheers!
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 14:16:37

eclipse wrote:With all the amazing new technologies like breeder reactors that eat nuclear waste and the other stuff my blog covers (see my sig), why are doomers so keen to ban this stuff?


Zealots don't take kindly to the facts, math, economics, or science refuting their dogma. It doesn't matter what the belief system itself it, Roman Catholicism or peak oil, mention in the quietest voice that 2+2 must equal 4...shouldn't it? and prepare to be squashed.
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 16:04:34

KaiserJeep wrote:
eclipse wrote:I've not seen evidence, just assertions.


Let's be brutally honest here. There is nothing whatsoever that I could link you to that would constitute evidence in the legal sense. It is an extremely important topic that has approximately six billion human lives hanging on it. Just like any and all "evidence" that supports or disproves Climate Change, Anthropogenic Global Warming, the misogynistic acts of Donald Trump and Bill Clinton, etc. etc.

Because at least 99% of what you read on the Internet is total and complete BS. You cannot make important decisions based on BS, and we all know it. If you want to link to a news source that has actual journalistic standards in place, try to do so.

One other point about stuff you read online, here or anywhere else. Some people will expend enormous amounts of energy and thought creating fanciful constructs such - as for example - a mathematical model that predicts the end of oil. All of that effort - all of it - is wasted, when any part of that model depends upon human behavior, because there does not exist a calculus of human behavior.

Think upon these topics, before you reply.


That's kind of what Jonah said to God when the people of Nineveh repented. But if he hadn't gone and preached to them they wouldn't have repented. Jonah was actually being selfish in an insidious way. Facing up to narcissism is a difficult task. Babbling on about doom can be about yelling to the world how great you are because you know what is going to happen. It's uncomfortable to a narcissist to be wrong. They will usually come at you with a whole new set of ideas rather than admit they are fallible. Personally, I've had to let go of a lot of my doom, while still remaining skeptical. People have proven to me that they are more resourceful and imaginative than I thought they were. That was hard to do. I had to change.
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 16:53:26

Careful, what you are saying about doom is bordering on sacrilegious for PO.com, where so many members are invested in the end of all things.

The problem with the Internet (which I played a small part in creating) is that there simply is very little of true philosophical, religious, educational, and political content there. Don't get me wrong, everything is linked, but most of the good stuff is behind paywalls. It has to be, because maintaining standards when reporting on these topics requires money, and relatively few are willing to pay for content. The signal-to-noise ratio on the free stuff is very low - even at PO.com.

A former member of my daughter's girl scout troop has just gotten her PhD in Psychology. Her thesis was on the internet and it's users. I am one of her non-technical reviewers, she does the same for my historical papers. She has proved with original research that the online world is more real than the actual world for the vast majority of users. When online repositories of history and current events diverge from the actual memories of the reader, most folks unquestioningly edit their own memories to comply with the online version. I find this astonishing and unsettling. She did her research by deliberately introducing inaccurate content to online web pages, and observing the results.

I have an extensive library of history texts, including the publications of the Nantucket Historical Association (where I am published multiple times), where I have been a member for 40+ years. Some of the tour guides on that tourist trap of an island (I love the place, yet can't stand to be there for long) are dishing out modified History, and the NHA has been fighting against it. There are multiple web pages where highly questionable "historical facts" are found, and the NHA is struggling with the question of whether to put our archives, or portions of them online. It is almost certain that when the actual history diverges from the popular version, the real story loses out.

I have decided to stay out of the fray, as (because of my 36+ year background in digital design) my own opinion would be accorded more weight than it actually merits.
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby eclipse » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 18:27:17

ralfy wrote:It has to do with the realities of limits to growth:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... g-collapse

That is, biocapacity (which includes availability of oil and various minerals) is limited, but the world population continues to grow. That means ecological footprint per person has to remain small in order to ensure optimal health.


But IPAT shows us the way? T - including all our energy resources - can either be a multiplier of environmental impact or divider. If we use the right T, like farming 9% of the world's oceans for kelp, we could have:-

* half a kilogram of seafood per person per day, to feed a world of 10 billion people!
* all the biofuels and biogas we could need to replace fossil fuels and provide the ultimate backup to wind and solar power, or work harmoniously with fast ramping gas to run a smoother nuclear grid,
* remove ocean acidity
* restore our atmosphere to 350ppm by 2085
In other words, seaweed is a silver bullet to feed the world, save the oceans, and save us from climate change, all in this free PDF. "Negative carbon via Ocean Afforestation". Just register, and download it for free.
http://www.psep.ichemejournals.com/arti ... 57-5820(12)00120-6/abstract

That's just ONE technology: seaweed farming, which would not only give us all the methane we want (slowly biodigested in big submersible bladders at 100m depth, only collected after 135 days composting), but as mentioned, soak up all the CO2 and put it in big bladders on the ocean floor.

Unfortunately, population continues to rise, which means footprint per capita has to decrease. It has to decrease further given long-term effects of environmental damage and global warming.

Which is exactly what I am arguing can happen as we move forward in so many areas. Carbon neutral energy from nukes or a combination of renewables + kelp biogas backup can give us everything we need.
(YES, TO SCALE, YES, I've seen "End of suburbia" and read Heinberg's The Party's Over and Powerdown and seen those guys saying "But there isn't enough land!" They forgot about the ocean, didn't they?)

Meanwhile, the global economy on which that population depends is capitalist, which means footprint per capita has to keep growing in order to ensure that much of the wealth (which consists primarily of numbers in hard drives) of the rich (which controls most of that economy) continues to grow. The same goes for both the middle class and those who want to be part of the middle class:
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-22956470

It sounds like you're quoting various economic memes around 'ecological economics' without further reflection. Try the EcoModernists at The Breakthrough Institute: the breakdown what went wrong with this model, and how to move on from here.

Ecological economics set out 30 years ago to be a redemptive science -- to "right size" the human economy for its natural infrastructure.4 But today, ecological economics finds itself at a political and academic dead end. Trapped in the amber of its mathematical models and conceptual constructs, ecological economics presents an object lesson for those who would appeal to scientific theories, rather than to popular concerns, to provide an intellectual and political basis for an effective green politics.


http://thebreakthrough.org/index.php/jo ... -economics

It has many great points, including this next whopper!

Neo-Malthusians argued that the world would not be able to grow enough food to keep up with population, but this assertion was simply wrong. In fact, world food production more than doubled between 1960 and 2000, and per capita food production during that period also increased.10 In 1981, economist Amartya Sen, who later won the Nobel Prize for his research, published a book that flatly and effectively contradicted the idea that famines occur because not enough food is produced. Sen showed that oppression, injustice, and destitution -- breakdowns in distribution, not shortages in production -- cause famines. With such "misleading variables as food output per unit of population, the Malthusian approach profoundly misspecifies the problems facing the poor in the world," Sen wrote, noting that as per capita food production increased, the world was lulled into a false optimism that famines would decrease. "It is often overlooked that what may be called 'Malthusian optimism' has actually killed millions of people."11
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 20:51:23

eclipse wrote:...farming 9% of the world's oceans for kelp....


What kind of hell planet are you trying to create? A world with oceans drowning in kelp? Ten billion people subsisting on a diet of kelp?

For heaven's sake, thats even worse then doom.

Have you ever even tasted kelp?

Surely there is a better plan for the future then that.....

Image
Cows will eat kelp....when the grass is all gone.
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby ralfy » Sat 25 Feb 2017, 23:34:07

eclipse wrote:
But IPAT shows us the way? T - including all our energy resources - can either be a multiplier of environmental impact or divider. If we use the right T, like farming 9% of the world's oceans for kelp, we could have:-



My understanding is that limits to growth refers to biocapacity, or resources in general and not just resources. In connection to that, we have ecological footprint:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... _footprint

That is, the world has around 12.2 billion global hectares, and that in turn is based on ecosystems that are very sensitive to things like climate change. As population increases and environmental damage takes its toll, then the footprint per capita decreases further.


* half a kilogram of seafood per person per day, to feed a world of 10 billion people!



From what I know, sea harvests have been on a downward trend the last four decades.


* all the biofuels and biogas we could need to replace fossil fuels and provide the ultimate backup to wind and solar power, or work harmoniously with fast ramping gas to run a smoother nuclear grid,



Very likely, not will not be able to make up for what's needed to avoid doom, i.e., a global economic collapse.


* remove ocean acidity
* restore our atmosphere to 350ppm by 2085



Will require extensive cooperation in a world which operates in the opposite direction because most think that there will be no "doom" because technofixes will allow for "business as usual."


In other words, seaweed is a silver bullet to feed the world, save the oceans, and save us from climate change, all in this free PDF. "Negative carbon via Ocean Afforestation". Just register, and download it for free.
http://www.psep.ichemejournals.com/arti ... 57-5820(12)00120-6/abstract



Absorbing CO2 while using methane is also inevitable, but will not allow for "business as usual," which is what most want (and which explains why they are in denial when it comes to "doom"). For them, a "silver bullet" is what will allow for the equivalent of one more earth.


That's just ONE technology: seaweed farming, which would not only give us all the methane we want (slowly biodigested in big submersible bladders at 100m depth, only collected after 135 days composting), but as mentioned, soak up all the CO2 and put it in big bladders on the ocean floor.



Good to know how "big bladders" work and what bright ideas people will do with them in exchange for profit.

Which is exactly what I am arguing can happen as we move forward in so many areas. Carbon neutral energy from nukes or a combination of renewables + kelp biogas backup can give us everything we need.
(YES, TO SCALE, YES, I've seen "End of suburbia" and read Heinberg's The Party's Over and Powerdown and seen those guys saying "But there isn't enough land!" They forgot about the ocean, didn't they?)



Ironically, even doomers point out that we "can" do this or that, but the question is, Have they taken place?

I recall one documentary stating that policies dealing with global warming and peak oil should have been implemented at least two decades ago. Another study argues that a global transition to using other sources of energy may take up to a century:

http://www.businessinsider.com/131-year ... il-2010-11

I think the problem is that you see the world as some computer simulation, where if one pushes a few buttons then whole societies will quickly act in tandem and ensure that policies or technologies are implemented easily. In order to remedy that, you need to see these crises raised in light of the following realities:

- the global economy as well as various resources are funded and controlled by a financial elite; their goal is to get a better return on their investments each time, and that means continuous economic growth and increasing consumption not just of energy but of material resources;

- the "silver bullets" you presented become viable only if it leads to more sales of cell phones, tablets, electric cars, etc. In short, a global middle class:

http://magazine.pewtrusts.org/en/archiv ... ds-economy

which in turn requires exceeding planetary limitations

- not just the financial elite but the military, the middle class, and most of the population expect not just basic needs but middle class conveniences, more and better armaments, etc; in short, not just continuous but accelerating growth, and in a short span of time.

It sounds like you're quoting various economic memes around 'ecological economics' without further reflection. Try the EcoModernists at The Breakthrough Institute: the breakdown what went wrong with this model, and how to move on from here.


Completely the opposite. Those are not "economic memes" but realities, and not based on "ecological economics" but on the simple fact that all of those numbers in hard drives are backed by a combination of energy and material resources, and that both are in turn limited by the biosphere. These points are based on reflection rather than on naivete, that is, assuming that the world population operates as some unified organism, and because of that some "great Anthropocene" will emerge. Give me a break.


Ecological economics set out 30 years ago to be a redemptive science -- to "right size" the human economy for its natural infrastructure.4 But today, ecological economics finds itself at a political and academic dead end. Trapped in the amber of its mathematical models and conceptual constructs, ecological economics presents an object lesson for those who would appeal to scientific theories, rather than to popular concerns, to provide an intellectual and political basis for an effective green politics.


http://thebreakthrough.org/index.php/jo ... -economics

It has many great points, including this next whopper!



Ironically, this supports my argument. The reason why ecological economics was perceived as a failure is because the magic of free market capitalism gave the impetus for all sorts of technofixes to be implemented in return for more production, sales, and profits. Progress, in turn, was later measured in terms of credit.

Now, it turns out that some are beginning to realize that the fact that human ingenuity cannot ultimately outwit limitations of the biosphere. Which is what we are now seeing.

If any, there's your "whopper."

Neo-Malthusians argued that the world would not be able to grow enough food to keep up with population, but this assertion was simply wrong. In fact, world food production more than doubled between 1960 and 2000, and per capita food production during that period also increased.10 In 1981, economist Amartya Sen, who later won the Nobel Prize for his research, published a book that flatly and effectively contradicted the idea that famines occur because not enough food is produced. Sen showed that oppression, injustice, and destitution -- breakdowns in distribution, not shortages in production -- cause famines. With such "misleading variables as food output per unit of population, the Malthusian approach profoundly misspecifies the problems facing the poor in the world," Sen wrote, noting that as per capita food production increased, the world was lulled into a false optimism that famines would decrease. "It is often overlooked that what may be called 'Malthusian optimism' has actually killed millions of people."11


Meanwhile, population boomed, leading to incredible strains on ecosystems. At the same time, corporations controlled more of food systems worldwide, together with shipping, etc. The financial corporations that financed them also funded mechanized armies and increased arms production to "protect" not just food sources but also those for oil and minerals. Meanwhile, the same large population that experienced unprecedented health thanks to availability of food and medicine now want even more:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-22956470

The same corporations which control the global economy

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... the-world/

are counting on increasing sales of all sorts of goods and services to expanding markets in most of the world in return for profits and returns on investment, which they imagine they will re-invest in more businesses to make more sales, in return for more profits and ROIs.

Those are the same corporations who will be funding your "silver bullets." Guess what they want in return?
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Re: Why do doomers censor hope?

Unread postby eclipse » Sun 26 Feb 2017, 02:00:16

Plantagenet wrote:
eclipse wrote:...farming 9% of the world's oceans for kelp....


What kind of hell planet are you trying to create? A world with oceans drowning in kelp? Ten billion people subsisting on a diet of kelp?

No, well under 1% of the world's oceans would feed the world. Kelp would actually enhance ocean health as it AND the associated shellfish soak up excess nutrients that otherwise cause oceanic dead zones.

Shellfish and seaweed are nature’s purification systems. A single oyster can filter up to 50 gallons of water per day, helping to improve clarity of the water in coastal bays. Seaweed and shellfish are both excellent at removing nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorous that pollute waterways and contribute to eutrophication in nearly 70 percent of U.S. marine waterways. The Nature Conservancy is working with the Chesapeake Bay Program to develop recommendations based on the best available science on how to account for reductions in nutrients loads provided by oysters.

Aquaculture gear can also provide habitat in the water for local fish and invertebrates, an important benefit due to lost habitat from development, fishing and other anthropogenic causes. With shellfish and seaweed populations at historically low levels — in the case of oysters, 85 percent lost globally — the ecological benefits these communities once gave us have been lost. Can we harness aquaculture to recover some of the benefits of these lost populations?
http://www.triplepundit.com/2017/02/can ... he-planet/


Cows will eat kelp....when the grass is all gone.

But don't they get sick when they try to replace grass with kelp? But a little is great: Seaweed farming would not limit us to only seaweed and seafood! By no means! It could provide all the fertiliser our traditional land based farmers need. We would bring some biodigested seaweed onto land, get the salt out, and use it as fertiliser. Seaweed could bring our soils back to life. There is even a special seaweed that cows love and eliminates their methane burps! Methane burps are bad news, and cattle lose 15% of their growth to these energy losing burps. But a special seaweed cuts their burps by 99%, solving cattle's infamous methane climate emissions, *and* helping the cows grow faster!
https://theconversation.com/seaweed-cou ... urps-66498
Dr James Hansen recommends breeder reactors that convert nuclear 'waste' into 1000 years of clean energy for America, and can charge all our light vehicles and generate "Blue Crude" for heavy vehicles.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/
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