[onlooker]

Rich people are less empathetic, less altruistic and more selfish than those of the lower classes, according to new research from University of California at Berkeley and at San Francisco.

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/ne ... -says.html

[Cog]

Don't care.

[Outcast_Searcher]

That's easy to say. And yet, who pays the bulk of the income taxes? Who is writing the big checks to charities? As a group, it's the rich.

And who is expecting society to pony up and take care of them via government programs? By and large, it's the poor.

I wonder if studies like this correct for the idea that the rich are ALREADY contributing significantly to society via taxes (including wealth redistribution programs), whether they like it or not.

I know that during my career, that this idea was pointed out to me (i.e. I already pay a LOT in income taxes, so I don't like people bugging me about donating to cause "X") by a number of folks.

Practical point: Claims of empathy, whether valid or not, don't pay the bills.

[mmasters]

They should dig a little further and elaborate on those who made it rich themselves and those who inherit their wealth. Otherwise, it's just a generalization.

[onlooker]

I don't think you quite got it Outcast. It is about being stirred in your heart and giving of your own free will. Taxes are a forced obligation

[Cog]

So its all about feelings eh?

[Newfie]

Cog,
Being non-empathetic does not make you rich. It makes you a poser.

In fact being rich does not make you wealthy. Wealth, true wealth, is not about money but richness of life.

I would not trade my life riches for Bill Gates. But I’m a pretty happy and lucky guy.

[Cog]

I reserve what little empathy I have, for those who deserve it. I have zero empathy for those who have created their own misery but yet feel entitled to gain from my empathy.

[Newfie]

Nothing wrong with that. I’ve often been accused of being a prick, probably rightly so. I know that when I see someone struggling I have much more sympathy or empathy than someone who expresses entitlement, no matter how refined they are.

Perhaps the difference is the way I see folks with little struggling forward. Most often the “rich” guy has come from a privileged class. Maybe he is smart and motivated, but the poor person has to be smart, motivated, and overcome a culture designed to keep them down.

[Cog]

Motivation can make up for a lot of early disadvantages, particularly in the USA.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Perhaps the difference is the way I see folks with little struggling forward. Most often the “rich” guy has come from a privileged class. Maybe he is smart and motivated, but the poor person has to be smart, motivated, and overcome a culture designed to keep them down.

To be successful, anyone not born with a silver spoon in their mouths , has to be smart, motivated, and compete.

So for the first two, there's certainly no difference between "the poor" and the 95ish percent.

Now, how much of the problem with "the poor" is "a culture designed to keep them down" and how much is bad decision making, lack of motivation, and terrible money discipline?

Yes, if people are stupid with money and make bad decisions, then pretty much all financial institutions including any that loan money will "take advantage" of the poor by charging them high interest rates and high fees.

But for a huge proportion of them (and certainly all of them I've tried to work with over decades), a moderate amount of money discipline (starting with saving a little) and better decisions could avoid the vast majority of that by reading a little and making better decisions.

Examples:

1). High credit card debt with usurious interest rates, since it's unsecured debt.

2). Payday loans, in any form I've read about.

3). Pawn shops. (Similar rates and tactics as payday loan outfits, but they call it a "storage fee" instead of usurious interest rates on steroids).

4). Bank fees.

5). High auto insurance rates for people with low credit ratings.

6). Usurious used car loans (even though they have the car for collateral).

And on and on.

...

Is this the culture "designed" to keep poor people down?

Now, I think our public educational system should do a FAR better job of basic financial education, but since it does such a poor job generally re things like science, math, and literacy, that's not likely to happen.

But notice that no one is putting a gun to anyone's head to force the bad decisions. No one is forcing anyone never to save a dime or to always spend all they can earn and borrow. No one is preventing anyone from acquiring more skills to move up, or to get a second job for awhile to kickstart some savings if they can't due to current budget needs.

In 100% of the cases where I've tried to help poor families, they spent every spare dime of help they got, ignored all the advice and information to help them get ahead, and ended up in the same place they started.

But this is 100% the fault of what? The rich? Sorry, I just don't find that credible. And I don't see how just throwing more money at the issue is money well spent.

[onlooker]

I ask rhetorically, is the only measure of success making good money?
Perhaps we should feel empathy and compassion for those believe this

[Ibon]

Perhaps the difference is the way I see folks with little struggling forward. Most often the “rich” guy has come from a privileged class. Maybe he is smart and motivated, but the poor person has to be smart, motivated, and overcome a culture designed to keep them down.

True. My observations not exactly related to empathy but rather to the baggage the wealthy carry that is associated with their privilege. Rich folks keep themselves in rarefied company of the fellow rich. Movements within this space isolates them from ever sharing common spaces with the poor beyond perhaps a sporting event or in the relationship of employer / employee. The rich rarely associate with the poor as an equal on the same turf. Drop a wealthy person in many poor neighborhoods, whether urban or rural, regardless if of the same race or a different one, and the wealthy person is totally outside his element. Once you remove from the rich the shield of wealth, status or position of power as boss and place him or her on equal footing with the poor that is when you can really see the insecurity that is almost always inherent in the wealthy. They may seem powerful but their confidence is in many cases just a veneer of external wealth. Without that wealth and power advantage the wealthy are quite fearful. Because they are distrustful needing to protect their advantage. This results in a loss of empathy. They carry suspicion and among their own kind a lot of competition.

The poor on the other hand have nothing to lose. They may be increasingly struggling in what is becoming more and more a two class society and not have the privilege or opportunity of the wealthy. But on an equal footing they are in general probably more empathetic and generous.

Being wealthy is not all advantage. There is baggage there. A lot of baggage.

What Jesus said: I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

As it is hard for a rich man to sit and break bread with the poor on equal footing.

[rockdoc123]

What Jesus said: I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

As it is hard for a rich man to sit and break bread with the poor on equal footing.

what a complete load of bollicks. Where do you think charities get their money from...the tooth fairy?
I'm well off and donate about 10% of my annual income to various charities and I know a number of people who are much better off than me and they donate large sums to charities each year, help in fundraising etc. Without these "rich" people, who you apparently disdain, there would be a lot more "poor" people who go hungry and are without medical attention.

And as to "rich" people inheriting it all, that is a complete mischaracterization of the majority who started out with very little, worked their collective asses off, had a few good breaks that they took advantage of and became wealthy by so doing.

[onlooker]

Rockdoc, the study does NOT say all rich. Certainly, they're are kind hearted giving rich people. But the issues revolves around who CAN more easily identifiy with the hardships of others. Certaily, poor people who may come from bad family backgrounds as you see here in the US or poor people in poor countries who have to work so hard just to survive can then identify with others who may have similar problems or anybody who has experienced any suffering and/or hardship. Plus, remember rich have abundance of money so they CAN donate, while less affluent maybe cannot. Finally, you also see incidents and trends of the rich "hiding" their money in tax havens. Not even willing to pay their fair share of taxes that presumably can be of benefit to the entire society.

[KaiserJeep]

That is, after all, why money was invented. So that we could keep score, and therefore have a motive for working harder than others, in order to have more money than those others have.

What one does with the money they recieve from working is another entirely seperate thing. In our society "income" is extorted involutarily from most, using the powers of government. I don't know about most of you, but I was never very happy with my middle class tax bill, knowing all too well what it cost me in terms of labor, time away from family, and stress.

I never signed a check to the IRS or Franchise Tax Board without resentment, and I never recieved a refund from them without even more resentment. The cause of most of this was observing how politicians squandered tax money.

Most of my charitable donations therefore involved my own time, in fundraising and cooking for the high school, the local battered women's shelter, and so forth. I am certain that those people were helped. I no longer do anything to aid the homeless, as my area has been and is being victimized by crimes committed by them, and is being made unsafe by their behavior.

[onlooker]

Kaiser, your post certainly shows empathy. However, we cannot operate on the premise of only what if or what should be. In the US like virtually every country people have to pay taxes. Your success and those of others depends on a adequately functioning society. Or else you could NOT have had this particular success. So, everyone, from the richest to the poorest then all paying into supposedly the full gamut of services and functions that allow society to exist and even thrive. Remember the word society comes from social. When I said fair share, the rich earn more, thus logically and fairly they should be expected to pay more. Again, I know this is your money but it is the contract that society has in fact assumed. So as long as the rules are set up this way, the social contract applies and the fair administration of that contract should require everyone to pay into the system in accord with their ability. As for your donations and time/effort given it is commendable. We each can do things that do not necessarily involve handouts of money. And the problem of homelessness illustrates how important taxes and people respecting the social laws and contract is to an adequately functioning society. Of course it would help if the politicians would do something effective for society with our money for a change, instead of blah blah blah.

[Outcast_Searcher]

What Jesus said: I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

As it is hard for a rich man to sit and break bread with the poor on equal footing.

what a complete load of bollicks. Where do you think charities get their money from...the tooth fairy?
I'm well off and donate about 10% of my annual income to various charities and I know a number of people who are much better off than me and they donate large sums to charities each year, help in fundraising etc. Without these "rich" people, who you apparently disdain, there would be a lot more "poor" people who go hungry and are without medical attention.

And as to "rich" people inheriting it all, that is a complete mischaracterization of the majority who started out with very little, worked their collective asses off, had a few good breaks that they took advantage of and became wealthy by so doing.

+1

But it's great for buying far left votes, because they just love to pretend all that's true as justification for:

1). Making government bigger.

2). Justifying making income taxes (especially for the rich) as high as they can possibly get away with.

...

And the hell with the facts, as long as that is successful.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I never signed a check to the IRS or Franchise Tax Board without resentment, and I never recieved a refund from them without even more resentment. The cause of most of this was observing how politicians squandered tax money.

+1

Most of my charitable donations therefore involved my own time, in fundraising and cooking for the high school, the local battered women's shelter, and so forth. I am certain that those people were helped. I no longer do anything to aid the homeless, as my area has been and is being victimized by crimes committed by them, and is being made unsafe by their behavior.

Good for you. People should do good, and do it in a way that they think dovetails with their own self interest (i.e. your concern about crime). It's certainly not like there aren't PLENTY of good causes worthy of charity in the US.

If there's one thing that makes my blood boil, it's observing internet commenters and opinion pieces whining about how rich folks like Bill Gates donate their money, and stating they should donate it in a different way that the commenter likes more. (I often point out that if they're so concerned, they should get off their ass, earn several $billion, and then donate it to whatever charities they please. And I even promise not to complain about how they donate the money THEY EARNED.)

I'm sure that makes me very popular with certain politically correct types.