[onlooker]

I say predicament because a common definition is that it is a problem without a solution. If we take our evolution into account and how we are currently constituted, that it the source of my personal pessimism. Beyond all the actual problems and limites we are now encountering both environmentally, socially and economically. So, unless something highly unexpected happens ie. a miracle., I see a total collapse of human societies somewhere in the range of 2040 to 2060. A great die off as well. What say you?

[Rod_Cloutier]

Everything is but a dream in the mind of God. Nothing is ultimately real except that which is aware of the dream, whatever that my be.

Everything but awareness is temporary, ephemeral, a standing mirage with no real substance. For all of your worries for humans, the environment, the Earth, are wasted, it's all fake. Nothing happened.

https://youtu.be/C2Q094-GrCg?t=3

[KaiserJeep]

It is true that human overshoot on this entire world is precisely defined as a predicament. However, I prefer Ibon's more correct terminology, we will have a "correction" to the overshoot population, not a "collapse".

Then you realize that the "entire world" is a box your mind is confined in. One you (once again using the tired old cliché) think outside that same box, you realize that leaving the surface of the world and colonizing space is a complete solution to the predicament in the sense that it can preserve our human species and a large number of our plant and animal food species. However, the flip side of that coin is, we still see the population correction on the Earth, with billions of humans dying on the surface of this world.

The technology of space travel is advancing faster than ever before thanks to the privatization of space industry. The difference between having a colony and failing to establish one I believe to be a matter of 20 years or so, and I make this prediction with high confidence. I believe that we have the runway left to lift off, as long as none of you Luddites insist upon pulling the throttle back. Thus I find myself in the strange position of supporting BAU, and advocating that we keep our doomed high energy lifestyles going as long as possible, by "kicking the can" again and again.

Pump that oil, dig that coal, and burn, baby, burn. Anything you want as long as you build the spacecraft that lift us off this limited planet into space, which has the virtually unlimited supplies of materials and energy to enable Trillions of humans to live.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Everything is but a dream in the mind of God. Nothing is ultimately real except that which is aware of the dream, whatever that my be.

Everything but awareness is temporary, ephemeral, a standing mirage with no real substance. For all of your worries for humans, the environment, the Earth, are wasted, it's all fake. Nothing happened.

https://youtu.be/C2Q094-GrCg?t=3

If there were any evidence at all that "God" exists, you might have a point. As it is, why not just claim it's a collective dream of millions of purple unicorns that poop happiness? That one sounds a lot more fun.

[Outcast_Searcher]

The technology of space travel is advancing faster than ever before thanks to the privatization of space industry. The difference between having a colony and failing to establish one I believe to be a matter of 20 years or so, and I make this prediction with high confidence. I believe that we have the runway left to lift off, as long as none of you Luddites insist upon pulling the throttle back. Thus I find myself in the strange position of supporting BAU, and advocating that we keep our doomed high energy lifestyles going as long as possible, by "kicking the can" again and again.

To me, it's about information. And in the information age, that is expanding beyond our ability to comprehend, re space. Space telescopes are collecting a LOT more data than we can look at (this is an area where A/I might help a lot in the future). And those telescopes are getting more disparate, more effective, and far more numerous.

No need to go running around getting people killed and using sh*t-tons of energy until we find something WORTH exploring up close. And then we've shown that unmanned probes can be pretty awesome, given what NASA has done. (And no doubt in my mind, private companies will be able to do such missions far more efficiently).

And then, if we REALLY, REALLY think we've found something we need to send people to (say, first contact with probable little green men), I like Charles Stross' idea (Accelerando) of sending advanced AI's that act a lot like humans, but fit in a capsule smaller than a softball. Takes a LOT less energy to accelerate that up to "near" light speed (and then slow it down again) for the trip.

Unless we learn to get smart enough or unselfish enough not to just waste and pillage the resource of any colony we build (clone of Earth behavior), I don't think we should run around building up colonies on a philosophical basis.

I realize that if people believe this will somehow "save" humanity, most will be willing to pay any cost, and the hell with what is "right" etc, despite what we did to our own planet.

[KaiserJeep]

OS, again with the inside-the-box thinking. You automaticly think that space is the journey between planets and planets are where we live. There almost certainly is no other planet where humans can live in this solar system, and little chance we will send people to other stars for hundreds of years.

But living in artificial satellites, space colonies - that we can easily do, with the virtually unlimited raw materials and energy in space. Design your own simplified ecology, import the animals and plants from Earth, and manage it and make corrections with any needed inputs of almost free energy. Neat, orderly, controlled environments.

Planets by comparison are dirty, chaotic, and unmanageable, with random weather, earthquakes, wildfires, floods, etc. Usefull only as a source of animal and plant DNA.