[Plantagenet]

One does have to ask oneself who the terrorist is? "We will bomb cultural sites. 52 of them." Reminds one of virgins in heaven, doesn't it?

1. Trump is obviously saying scary things to intimidate the Iranians into not attacking America or American targets. As Winston Churchill once said...Jaw Jaw is better then War war.

2. Which virgins in heaven are you referring to? Muhammad's self-repairing virgins? Christian martyr virgins? please explain...


Do you mean the 72 Muslim virgins for martyrs?

or


Or perhaps you mean Christian virgins?

Cheers!

[asg70]

So, final words is that 'Trump is a Bully and not very good at his job'. I have to wholeheardedly agree with that assessment.

Finally some sanity being demonstrated in this thread.

[careinke]

Said about a region that has been home to zealotry before Christ was born. How does that select out Iran from the rest? Who bombed the Twin Towers BTW?

what does that have to do with support for Iran?
Your comments strike me as being common to many folks who haven't any idea about the culture or political differences in the Middle East but can't stop themselves from pointing at each and every state as somehow being "terrorists". There are rogue elements in every country whether it be the Far East, Middle East or West. Confusing that with the political goals of a country isn't very wise.

And many in the Middle East and North Africa would point to the Crusades as being one of the longest runs of religious zeolotry...from the Christian faith. Nobody is without stains I'm afraid.

My point was about Iran not having a lot of support amongst its neighbouring countries who largely see them as enemies. You on the other hand seem to think they are all the same. No wonder we have wars.

ROC I have to say your take on this is probably the most accurate I have heard from this crowd. I do have some experience i n the Area.

My first deployment to the Middle East was in 1979, as the Director of Operations for a Forward Air Command Post, at Al Jabil on the Persian Gulf. Our mission was to monitor the Iranian/Iraqi war and watch over the Gulf. I was deployed numerous times to the Mid East, including Desert Storm, Provide Comfort, etc. I had over 20 combat missions as Mission Crew Commander on the E-3 (AWACS). After retiring from the Air Force, I worked as a contractor on the RSAF "Peace Shield" Integrated Air Defence System until 2004 when the contract expired.

I helped bring the Combined Operation Center on line and trained RSAF officers to take over. Then I helped establish the RSAF Peace Shield Training Center in Al Kharj KSA. I was the contractor lead for the School, and spent many, many, hours drinking Chai with my RSAF customers discussing the Middle East, Iran, Religion, etc. About 1/4 of the officers were Royalty, Some Matowain, a lot of Wahabi Sunni, and a few Shiatte. I was in the streets of Riyadh during 911, and My Villa on the Jedewal compound in Riyadh was blown up by a terrorist attack about three months after I left.

So bottom line, I have also carry some credibility on the subject, and I thought your analysis was pretty spot on.

Jeds questions and trying to relate the 911 attack with Iran basically shows his ignorance of the whole ME situation. Something I'm afraid most Americans are guilty of. I did sometimes Chide the Saudis about needing an Egyption to run the 911 operation.

Personally, I think we need to accept Iraq's request for us to leave. Trump should pull us completely out of the ME under a HUGE threat of retaliation if attacked while we withdraw. Bring them home and let them defend our border for a while......

[careinke]

Bright person, tell me how Iran is the cause of instability in EVERY Middle Eastern nation? As I recall, there were problems there when the Shah was our friend. Again, the Twin Towers were bombed through rivalry from another sect entirely. Iraq was no fault of Iran. The US has just messed things up through regime change wars as far as I can tell. It's obviously a volatile and important region that needs cool heads and not an inflammatory dick calling the shots

Well, listen to this. I see nothing wrong with Tulsi's opinion on this. https://youtu.be/LeSSQZMqov4

So, final words is that 'Trump is a Bully and not very good at his job'. I have to wholeheartedly agree with that assessment.

Although I agree with Tulsi wanting to get out of the ME, I'm not sure if this was an act of war.

Looking back, I seem to remember the US attacking a Head of State, I remember it because I had to file an OPREP 3 report on part of the mission. Was the attack of bombing Gaddafi an Act of War? I certainly don't remember Congress declaring war. It seems Trump's actions were at least an order of magnitude less than the bombing run on Gaddafi.

On the other hand, I'd sure like to see the Legislative Branch take back their war powers given to the Executive Branch.

Thanks for the link.

[derhundistlos]

I remember during the 2016 campaign Trump promising over and over to end the wasteful Afghanistan war. Here we sit in 2020 and the only thing Trump has done is to increase US troop concentrations in Afghanistan. Another Dump bait and switch.

Regarding Syria, there remains a significant US military presence so have no idea what Cog is bragging about. All Trump did was disengage from the NW of Syria to new positions and in the process stab in the back America's single reliable ally, the Kurds.

Cog brags about Trump's assassination. Suleimani was visiting Iraq at the invitation of the Iraqi government, which is why a high ranking Iraqi general was killed in the assassination. It's equivalent to a US five-star general visiting the United Kingdom on an official visit and Iran launches a drone attack killing the US commander and his UK counterpart. Yeah, real smart Cog.

Trump did a huge favor for the Iranian leadership. Trump's assassination of a wildly popular general has solidified the support of the people behind their government.

The Iranians are smart. They never make rash decisions. They will wait for the right opportunity then strike.

[Cog]

If the Iranian military want to martyr themselves in pointless attacks on Americans I'm sure we can accommodate them.

Threads like this are useful in that it brings out the left in droves to defend Islamic terrorism. Too bad you don't have Obama around to conduct ME apology tours and to hand out $150 Billion to a terrorist country. But elections have consequences, don't they?

[EnergyUnlimited]

Roc,
Your noting Iran’s escalation is in line with my thinking. Once USA pulled out and out tight sanctions in the Iranians had little they could do except to annoy through their silly attacks.

Trump showed restraint but was ultimately pushed to a point where he needed to respond.

He put the ball back in Iran’s court. If they loose their cool and do something significant the Trump will have the green light to take out their nuclear production facilities.

I suspect that Iran understands it.
That is why in all probability their only significant response will be construction of nuclear weapons.
They won't officially admit what they are doing (regardless of this being obvious) until first warhead is made and tested.
Later they will claim that US aggression left them with no other choice.

Regime change scenario in Iran without a major war is unlikely btw.
General hate of Americans there is higher than desire to increase consumption. On the other hand China *will* assist them and global trends of abandoning dollar are likely to erode effects of american sanctions as well as time pass.
They understand that US is an ailing empire and they play for time.
Objections are not to get to major war and calmly wait for erosion of american global influence. Any retaliation is going to be low key, not to cross war threshold. Perhaps some hostile activities in Yemen and/or Syria and nothing more than that.
They can win this confrontation without firing a shot. Also emerge as an important regional power as time pass.

[Newfie]

I recall a while back, a year or two, reading a Leftish article very critical of Trump on the ME. One of the accusations it made was that the State Department had to keep 2 full time advisers in the White House to keep a Trump from pulling out of Syria.

The head snapping turnarounds abound.

[Tanada]

How about an Iranian-American perspective?

https://youtu.be/1C888mSyD7s

Youtube

[Newfie]

Above I opined about the consequences of the USA denying Iran it’s nuclear capability.

The other side of that is that if after all this mess Trump does NOT remove Iran’s nuclear threat then that is going to reflect very badly upon him.

This is to say that they way I see it both sides have high stakes, neither is likely to back down easily. Letting Iran have nukes is viewed, in some quarters, as a death knell for Israel. And I believe that this thought is a deeply motivating factor, beyond the terrorist threat, is Israel’s existence.

It should be interesting. Glad I don’t live over there.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Above I opined about the consequences of the USA denying Iran it’s nuclear capability.

The other side of that is that if after all this mess Trump does NOT remove Iran’s nuclear threat then that is going to reflect very badly upon him.

This is to say that they way I see it both sides have high stakes, neither is likely to back down easily. Letting Iran have nukes is viewed, in some quarters, as a death knell for Israel. And I believe that this thought is a deeply motivating factor, beyond the terrorist threat, is Israel’s existence.

It should be interesting. Glad I don’t live over there.

Risks to Israel are exaggerated.
They also have nukes, so MAD principle would apply.
Both Israel and Iran would behave rationally IMO.
Nuclear weapons are great stabilizers of regions.
In their presence open military conflicts are greatly suppressed.
They should get Nobel Peace Award.

[asg70]

The idea that nuclear proliferation is good is very much open to debate.

I've actually lost count of how many futurists predicting that nuclear weapons would get used sooner or later in the 21st century despite the end of the cold war due to proliferation alone. Events like this, tension between India and Pakistan, and the NK situation all point towards this eventuality. It might not be WWIII per se, probably a limited exchange (which would be of no solace to those at ground zero or within fallout range) but don't assume that MAD renders nukes unusable. Just because it's ill-advised to use a weapon doesn't mean a leader won't opt to do so anyway. Don't overestimate the prudence of world powers, especially those motivated by fundamentalist religions that fetishize martyrdom.

[rockdoc123]

Just because it's ill-advised to use a weapon doesn't mean a leader won't opt to do so anyway. Don't overestimate the prudence of world powers, especially those motivated by fundamentalist religions that fetishize martyrdom.

Agreed. And worse yet if the nukes are available then some real whacko can get access to them through nefarious means and you have a worst-case scenario that is mostly independent of any political machinations.

[Plantagenet]

56 Iranians crushed to death when crowd stampedes at Solemanni funeral

at-least-56-killed-in-stampede-at-iranian-generals-funeral-

I suppose Iran will now demand revenge for the 56 people crushed to death as well.


Death to America! But first we have to stampede and crush ourselves to death!

Cheers!

[Plantagenet]

The Iranian parliament just passed a bill labeling all US military personal as terrorists. The bill also decrees that all US institutions and corporations that aid the US military will also be henceforth considered to be terrorists.....that would presumably include the US government and companies with Pentagon contracts like Google, Apple, Micostoft, Boeing, McDonalds, Walmart, etc. etc.

iran-declares-pentagon-government-corporations-terrorists-amid-retaliation-fears

Thats actually similar to the longstanding policy of groups like Al Quaida and ISIS. They justified their attacks on US civilians on 9/11 and subsequent attacks on people on trains in Spain and Christmas markets in Germany and bars in Bali and pop band concerts in England and watching fireworks in France by saying that anyone who is a citizen of a western country participates in the evil activities of those western countries and so deserves to die.

Its really no surprise to see Iran now officially taking the same position as ISIS and Al Qaida, as this kind of perverse logic pervades modern Islamic thought on the rules of war.


Anyone in the US military or anyone who supports the US military has just been designated a terrorist by Iran

Cheers!

[onlooker]

https://7news.com.au/news/conflict/iran ... 8442924754

Iran launches multiple missiles at US base in Iraq, Iran state TV reports

[Cog]

This is no simple mortar or rocket attack on our airbase but a ballistic missile attack launched from Iran itself. If Iran wanted to majorly escalate, this is the way to go about it. Our response will be interesting to watch unfold.

[onlooker]

This is no simple mortar or rocket attack on our airbase but a ballistic missile attack launched from Iran itself. If Iran wanted to majorly escalate, this is the way to go about it. Our response will be interesting to watch unfold.

https://www.rt.com/news/477680-iran-mor ... n-strikes/
More strikes!

[Cog]

If, as is being reported, there were no American casualties, then our response will be more muted than some people expect. There are some juicy targets in Iran that are purely military in nature, but IMO we won't be doing a Desert Storm type total war air campaign like we did in Iraq. Some selected military targets unless Iran goes full retard. This will not please the Neocons but it will be a prudent response to what the Iranians have done so far.

[onlooker]

If, as is being reported, there were no American casualties, then our response will be more muted than some people expect. There are some juicy targets in Iran that are purely military in nature, but IMO we won't be doing a Desert Storm type total war air campaign like we did in Iraq. Some selected military targets unless Iran goes full retard. This will not please the Neocons but it will be a prudent response to what the Iranians have done so far.

Nuclear capable bombers deployed to Diego Garcia
https://www.westernjournal.com/us-deplo ... hare4share