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The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby jedrider » Sat 30 Jan 2021, 18:56:26

dissident wrote:The routine false dichotomy of invoking extremist speech to argue that free speech is not allowed. And of course only the right has extremist speech and not the precious, angelic left. All the blood libel spread by the leftist mass media and SJW drones on the internet is hate speech. It should be banned according to their own demands.


It's a fine line certainly. I think that if I planned to murder someone on line and someone murdered them, I think I could be held accountable if I crossed some line. That line has been getting crossed a lot, but how to word that is probably subtle. Say I created a fund to give to someone who murdered someone else, would that cross the line? How about all the participants there? We already have terrorism statutes that are unfairly applied, so we have already crossed that line. We punish journalist that rat on the U.S. government. So, we've already drawn many lines, probably mistakenly as well. I'm just acknowledging the problem and I don't have a ready made solution to it in any sense.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby aadbrd » Sat 30 Jan 2021, 20:58:21

dissident wrote:All the blood libel spread by the leftist mass media and SJW drones on the internet is hate speech.


The left don't engage in blood libel per se. Blood libel is typically used to dehumanize in order to rationalize murder/genocide, as per the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the blueprint Hitler built upon for the genocide of Jews and dusted off anew for QAnon. What the left do is use shame to cast people out of society. So the left doesn't kill you but they do unperson you. It is a problem which should be addressed but a lesser one than pipe bombs, attempted kidnapping of governors, and storming of capitols.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby Plantagenet » Sat 30 Jan 2021, 23:51:10

aadbrd wrote: the left doesn't kill you ....


Actually extremists on the left kill people just like extremists on the right kill people.

For instance, over two dozen people were killed during the various antifa and black lives matter riots this past year....with some being killed by by leftists and some being killed by people on the right.

americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-2020]

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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby evilgenius » Wed 03 Feb 2021, 06:01:52

I think, along the lines of unpersoning, that the right is offended by the left's use of rights that are characterized as extending from an individual's identity, and not extending from their broader definition as a human being in general. At least, the right's fears frame it that way. That is actually something to be afraid of in any society.

Then too, the left keeps trying to tell the right that the definition of human being has been slanted toward whiteness for so long that it has lost power to represent some people fully. Oh, it is the Twenty First Century, they can get some of what they have a right to, but not everything.

To which the right counters that whites were never what the focus was about, but economic certainty. The definition, they might assert, has been pegged to success, and the left are trying to insist upon honoring failure. The way this argues out goes on and on...

Interestingly, both sides claim a legitimate reaction to slow, or structural, violence. The left claim their protests are against institutionalized racism. The right claim theirs are against the fundamental trampling of their constitutional rights.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby jedrider » Thu 11 Feb 2021, 13:58:54

So, according to the timeline of events as presented in the Trump impeachment II hearings: Trump tweeted 'Get Pence' after he knew that the riot had succeeded in penetrating the Capitol building! That tells me that Trump is such a deranged figure that he could have used the insanity defense or, at least, temporary insanity (even though we all know that there is nothing temporary about his derangement). I think he should have eaten a Twinkie first, for his own later defense. Still, pretty amazing that he would go after one of his own enablers that way. Textbook narcissism certainly.

I haven't listened to much of the impeachment, just being too busy to engage, but one line did stand out from listening today:

"Our constitution REQUIRES that Donald Trump be impeached." Yes, I have to agree with that. Not only did Donald Trump kill a person, but our democracy and republic are severely wounded at a result, and he may still get away with it. Amazing.

Now, I want Biden to stop trying to extradite Julian Assange.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby Pops » Thu 11 Feb 2021, 14:25:45

evilgenius wrote:I think, along the lines of unpersoning, that the right is offended by the left's use of rights that are characterized as extending from an individual's identity, and not extending from their broader definition as a human being in general. At least, the right's fears frame it that way. That is actually something to be afraid of in any society.

Not sure whether you actually believe that or believe The Right believes that.

The "right" defends whites, christians and men.<PERIOD
Rejects human rights almost universally
Here are a few examples
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby Plantagenet » Thu 11 Feb 2021, 19:45:05

jedrider wrote: Not only did Donald Trump kill a person.......


You lost me there.

who do you imagine that Donald Trump killed.....and if you have knowledge about such a killing why haven't you reported this to the police? If your claim is accurate then Donald Trump should be indicted for murder....but if your claim is false then you got some 'splaining to do.

Image
Jedr----you got some 'splaining to do!

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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby jedrider » Thu 11 Feb 2021, 19:57:43

Plant wrote:who do you imagine that Donald Trump killed


Well, Donald always said that he could 'kill a person and get away with it' and he did!

But I'm more worried about the state of our nation and the 'killing' of democracy and our constitutional republic at this point.

Yes, free speech? You mean, inciting a mob to the specific violence he intended? That speech may not be free and the consequences were rather immediate as Trump didn't let up when the results would e obvious and he even indicated the when and the where and the who. That's how I see it.
Last edited by jedrider on Thu 11 Feb 2021, 20:43:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby Plantagenet » Thu 11 Feb 2021, 20:03:03

jedrider wrote:
Plant wrote:who do you imagine that Donald Trump killed


Well, Donald always said that he could 'kill a person and get away with it' and he did!


Did he?

I repeat my question, sirrah.....who do you imagine that Donald Trump killed?

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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby aadbrd » Fri 12 Feb 2021, 11:10:36

Plantagenet wrote:who do you imagine that Donald Trump killed?


Ask and ye shall receive.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... -list.html

All told, the Trump administration’s deregulatory actions were estimated to significantly increase greenhouse gas emissions over the next decade and lead to thousands of extra deaths from poor air quality each year.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby jedrider » Fri 12 Feb 2021, 11:45:16

Nearly 60 percent of Capitol riot arrestees have something in common — a history of financial problems: analysis

Pain harvesting I suppose. These are the Trump lovers, trying to cover up their pain and wounds by blindly following a would-be tyrant.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby Ibon » Fri 12 Feb 2021, 11:48:16

jedrider wrote:Nearly 60 percent of Capitol riot arrestees have something in common — a history of financial problems: analysis

Pain harvesting I suppose. These are the Trump lovers, trying to cover up their pain and wounds by blindly following a would-be tyrant.


The very ones who would benefit from progressive reforms.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby JuanP » Fri 12 Feb 2021, 13:57:27

Ibon wrote:
jedrider wrote:Nearly 60 percent of Capitol riot arrestees have something in common — a history of financial problems: analysis

Pain harvesting I suppose. These are the Trump lovers, trying to cover up their pain and wounds by blindly following a would-be tyrant.


The very ones who would benefit from progressive reforms.


I wonder what percentage of American citizens have a history of financial problems in common. 60%? 70%? 80%? :lol:
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby JuanP » Fri 12 Feb 2021, 14:00:52

aadbrd wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:who do you imagine that Donald Trump killed?


Ask and ye shall receive.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... -list.html

All told, the Trump administration’s deregulatory actions were estimated to significantly increase greenhouse gas emissions over the next decade and lead to thousands of extra deaths from poor air quality each year.


Every single US President in living memory, if not every single US President ever, has been responsible for the deaths of thousands in the USA and abroad each year.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby aadbrd » Fri 12 Feb 2021, 14:52:49

Seems like the last bastion of Trump defense is to evoke whataboutisms, usually bogus, often vague, never compelling.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby jedrider » Sat 13 Feb 2021, 12:31:41

This is what I've been talking about (sort of figured it out on my own actually):

New Legislation Would Expose the Financiers of the Capitol Siege
https://truthout.org/articles/new-legislation-would-expose-the-financiers-of-the-capitol-siege/

The lying machinery must be defunded. That is the only way of defeating it. Just like Al Capone was brought down by tax returns. The same thing applies now.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby evilgenius » Sat 13 Feb 2021, 13:13:18

Pops wrote:
evilgenius wrote:I think, along the lines of unpersoning, that the right is offended by the left's use of rights that are characterized as extending from an individual's identity, and not extending from their broader definition as a human being in general. At least, the right's fears frame it that way. That is actually something to be afraid of in any society.

Not sure whether you actually believe that or believe The Right believes that.

The "right" defends whites, christians and men.<PERIOD
Rejects human rights almost universally
Here are a few examples

I don't think people decide to become conservative in order to support racism. I think they come to that decision based upon where the lines of division are drawn for them in society. Mostly, those lines come down to the tax structure.

Taxes aren't like fees, which can be spread across an expanding group. Taxes are a percentage. It means that, under the current structure, a person doesn't really have full rights until they can argue legitimately for some change to the tax structure that benefits them.

They have to pass that test, before they can be said to have standing. Now, to some degree, we do give standing to all men. It's just that, sometimes, the outcome in court or other, doesn't support that. It doesn't match what you would expect it to with regards to randomness. It suggests, to those who insist the world must have some beauty, that those with more petty ambitions are, in fact, gaming the system. What the truth really is may be beyond our every day perceptions.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby jedrider » Sun 14 Feb 2021, 14:14:49

'I don't trust the people above me': Riot squad cops open up about disastrous Capitol insurrection response
https://www.alternet.org/2021/02/capitol-riot-2650535252/

Yes, Trump appointees and the right-wingers in positions of power in DOD and police, no doubt. What a disgrace to the nation not to defend their democratically (for the most part) elected lawmakers carrying out their duty to the nation.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby Ibon » Sun 14 Feb 2021, 14:27:04

evilgenius wrote:I don't think people decide to become conservative in order to support racism.


No one is born a racist, a catholic, a jew, or a muslim. We become all of those from our families and communities.

Racism in America is multi generation deep and all the more insidious because we are not taught the raw truth of its injustice in schools.

How many of you knew about the Greenwood District of Tulsa Oklahoma and what happened there before this actually became a media topic after the George Floyd murder?

I didn't know about that story beforehand. Just an example.
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Re: The U.S. Capitol Insurrection of 2021

Postby aadbrd » Sun 14 Feb 2021, 15:29:02

Knowledge of history only goes so far. There is a profound empathy-gap in this country, really on both sides.
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