[Newfie]

Trump served out his term. You owe me $100. Unless you intend to welch like Shorty.

[Plantagenet]

Yo COG!

How are you doing? ---- great to see you are OK -----long time no post.

Hope things are going great for you this winter......or at least as great as is possible in our currently pandemic infested, globally warmed, and politically benighted world.



Cheers!

[Newfie]

Glad to see you here.

[Ibon]

He got impeached twice. I would say that is $ 200 dollars. Atonement and contrition on your part Cog realizing the racist that Trump was along with all his supporters should double that amount.

The disregard of his followers to the constitution and murdering policemen at the capitol along with defecating in the hallways should double that amount again.

See that Donation tab on the left hand side of front page. Have at it.


And finally, sorry your sociopath lost!

[Plantagenet]

What exactly were the terms of this friendly wager?

Was the bet on (1) whether or not Trump would serve out his term in office......or (2) whether or not Trump got impeached?

I have a vague memory of reading the terms of this wager when it was made, and to the best of my recollection it was a bet on whether or not Trump would serve out his whole four-year-long term in office.....with Cog betting Trump would make it the end of the his term in office and Ibon betting Trump would be removed from office prior to the end of his term in office.


Ibon and Cog made a friendly wager....now its time for the loser to pay up

Cheers!

[Ibon]

I guess that is true Plant, I did bet that he would be impeached and removed from office, I only got the first part right, and predicted all along that this wager was a long shot on my part. I am more than happy to press that make a donation button on the left column and help along this site which I see as similar to supporting NPR all those years. You can't just free load on your entertainment, you have to be generous at times.
And of course, a friendly wager it was and how could I not honorably pay this after years of ranting about the dishonorable subject of the wager!
haha

In the spirit of that wager there is no doubt I did nail it even though Trump physically did make it to the end of his term. Mentally making it to the end of his term is another matter! I hope Cog's victory offsets a bit his disappointment on Trumps defeat.

[Ibon]

Trump served out his term. You owe me $100.

Sorry I do not owe you. I stipulated the loser donates to this site which I just did. Congratulations by the way.

[Newfie]

Ibon and Cog;

I thank you two for this interaction and the contribution that resulted.

Now that the matter is settled I have a question about the words “impeach” and “impeachment” and “impeached”.

In MY use of language I would say “Articles of Impeachment” have been served. So in some sense Trump was then “impeached.”

OTOH the Articles of Impeachment were defeated or not enacted so the “Impeachment” was a failure or he was not found impeachable.

To use some parallel language when talking civil cases someone is “indicted” but then found “guilty” or “not guilty.” This clarity seems missing in the use of impeachment; which can lead to confusion.

I think that is what happened here, confusion over the odd duality in use of “impeached.”

[Tanada]

Ibon and Cog;

I thank you two for this interaction and the contribution that resulted.

Now that the matter is settled I have a question about the words “impeach” and “impeachment” and “impeached”.

In MY use of language I would say “Articles of Impeachment” have been served. So in some sense Trump was then “impeached.”

OTOH the Articles of Impeachment were defeated or not enacted so the “Impeachment” was a failure or he was not found impeachable.

To use some parallel language when talking civil cases someone is “indicted” but then found “guilty” or “not guilty.” This clarity seems missing in the use of impeachment; which can lead to confusion.

I think that is what happened here, confusion over the odd duality in use of “impeached.”

President Trump was served articles of Impeachment by the House. The Chief Justice held a trial with the US Senate as jury. The Prosecution did not convince the necessary number of jurors that impeachable offenses had taken place so the charges were defeated and the President remained in office. At the last minute the House passed a second attempt at Impeachment however the President left office more or less normally and the Chief Justice has rejected a second trial as being invalid under the Constitution. The House has insisted however and this has lead to a great deal of confusion. The former President can not be impeached post term in office, the only purpose of impeachment is to remove a person from office and you can not remove someone who is already gone, it is like passing a law convicting a dead person. By law if a person dies while undergoing trial they are presumed innocent as no further legal action can be taken against them, that is what happened in the rather famous Enron case where a senior executive died during the trial. Trial in absentia can only take place if the person being charged is known or at least believed to be living but absent.

[Pops]

however the President left office more or less normally

LOL

[Plantagenet]

.... of course, a friendly wager it was and how could I not honorably pay this after years of ranting about the dishonorable subject of the wager!
haha ...... I hope Cog's victory offsets a bit his disappointment on Trumps defeat.

Thank you very much for resolving the issue of the friendly wager so gracefully, Ibon.

My appreciation for your ideas and your character has grown even more.

And thank you to Tanada for providing some clarification on the exact meaning of "impeachment." Nancy Pelosi frequently boasts that she has impeached Trump twice, but of course all she did the second time was have her D minions in the House quickly vote to endorse impeachment, even though there had been no investigation and no presentation of evidence and no defense...... Nancy has turned impeachment into just another a partisan tool of the Ds and that is a big mistake, IMHO. it will be interesting to see if history judges Nancy Pelosi to have been a terrible speaker of the House for abusing her power to move articles of impeachment in the house without first having an investigation and in the process destroying the standard American judicial protections of first having an investigation and then having the evidence presented and then allowing the accused to defend himself. Apparently normal American judicial processes that provide some fairness and transparency to the accused can just be ignored when Queen Nancy issues a royal edict to impeach.

Now I'm looking forward to the "trial" in the Senate where the "judge" will be one of the D Senators......thus destroying another fundamental American idea that judges at trials should be impartial....rather than the judge being one of the accusers.


I'm one of the D senators who are going to vote to convict you.....and I am also the judge at your trial...... HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH!!!!!

Cheers!

[careinke]

Trump served out his term. You owe me $100. Unless you intend to welch like Shorty.

Glad to see you are OK, I was worried considering your location.

Welcome to the USSA

[Cog]

The terms of the wager have not been fulfilled on your part Ibon. If you care to look back on the original wager. The impeachment AND removal from office was what you agreed to. That did not happen. You have welched on the bet as I assumed you would. At no time was a donation to the site discussed as terms of the wager. But like Shorty you played the game but just not the way true gentlemen would settle such things. But I never expected a leftist to keep his word anyway so I'm not out anything.

[Ibon]

The terms of the wager have not been fulfilled on your part Ibon. If you care to look back on the original wager. The impeachment AND removal from office was what you agreed to. That did not happen. You have welched on the bet as I assumed you would. At no time was a donation to the site discussed as terms of the wager. But like Shorty you played the game but just not the way true gentlemen would settle such things. But I never expected a leftist to keep his word anyway so I'm not out anything.

Whatever it takes to confirm your narrative you will twist it accordingly. . Your a lot like Qanon followers
.

[Ibon]

At no time was a donation to the site discussed as terms of the wager.

8bullshit. That was my proposal to you and you never objected or responded. Not objecting and not responding in my book means you agreed

If your short on cash we can start a gofundme account for expenses related to Cogs mental collapse that his dream of white supremecy went down the toilet with the exit of the naked emporer.

[AdamB]

The terms of the wager have not been fulfilled on your part Ibon. If you care to look back on the original wager. The impeachment AND removal from office was what you agreed to. That did not happen. You have welched on the bet as I assumed you would. At no time was a donation to the site discussed as terms of the wager. But like Shorty you played the game but just not the way true gentlemen would settle such things. But I never expected a leftist to keep his word anyway so I'm not out anything.

The conditions of the pay off were explicit in the original bet? $100 cash, check money, order, Paypal, deposited into my account, something like that?

[Outcast_Searcher]

The terms of the wager have not been fulfilled on your part Ibon. If you care to look back on the original wager. The impeachment AND removal from office was what you agreed to. That did not happen. You have welched on the bet as I assumed you would. At no time was a donation to the site discussed as terms of the wager. But like Shorty you played the game but just not the way true gentlemen would settle such things. But I never expected a leftist to keep his word anyway so I'm not out anything.

The conditions of the pay off were explicit in the original bet? $100 cash, check money, order, Paypal, deposited into my account, something like that?

Given the way he (like planty) becomes unhinged on certain topics that upset him, he should demonstrate facts, re what was said, if he's to be deemed credible. Funny how one's acting unhinged on certain topics (like guns in his case) affects credibility in general down the road.

[JuanP]

Cog, when you proposed a wager about COVID-19 deaths in the USA, saying they would total 60,000 to 80,000 while I said they would exceed 100,000, I didn't accept it because I knew at the time that it was impossible for you to win and accepting your bet wasn't the nice thing to do, particularly since the bet would have been on Americans' deaths.

Now that you've won the bet with Ibon, the nice thing to do is to let it go. You've made your point; it makes no sense to rub it in any further, unless you can prove the terms of the wager are what you claim, which apparently you can't. Right now this is a you say, I say dilemma with neither one of you proving your case.

[Ibon]

You've made your point; it makes no sense to rub it in any further, unless you can prove the terms of the wager are what you claim, which apparently you can't.

That was maybe the sweetest $100 wager I lost! The only thing I could imagine worse for the Republican Party than Trump having been impeached and removed from office is exactly what they are doing at the moment, remaining loyal to him and therefore exposing the radicalism, the racism, the overt inclination toward insurrection, etc. The extremism that emerged at the end of Trumps presidency will never garner the support of a majority of the electorate. True colors exposed.

Trump having been impeached and removed from office was the one chance the R's had to cleanse and reinvent themselves once again toward credibility. They chose another path which will prove to be the best outcome for a center left coalition to form made up of democrats, disenfranchised R's, minorities and progressives.

[Cog]

Ibon,

In my time here I've made four money wagers involving GDP during the great recession. I pm'ed the members involved and paid them all. Also made a wager with onlooker which he lost. I communicated with him by PM and took away part of the penalty which was involved in the wager. We dealt with wager like gentlemen. If onlooker is still around he can verify all of this.

At any point you could have pm'ed me and offered to pay the wager. The offer itself I would have appreciated, but in the end I would have let you slide on actually paying it. But you didn't do that. Instead you went a different route.

But I'm ok with all of this now, because its worth the $100 to me for you to reveal your true character. Even those among the left which you call friends, will never trust you are a man of a your word. That is priceless and is why I made the wager to begin with.