[Revi]

Neither party has figured out how to get off the hamster wheel of stimulus. I'm not sure we want them to.
https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/economy/effect-stimulus-checks-on-inflation-overall-economy/

[Plantagenet]

Neither party has figured out how to get off the hamster wheel of stimulus. I'm not sure we want them to.
https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/economy/effect-stimulus-checks-on-inflation-overall-economy/

Financial stimulus (ie. printing money) is OK until you reach a tipping point. When you go beyond that tipping point it tends to produce inflation which can be very damaging to the economy and very damaging to poor people and people on fixed incomes.



It appears that the trillions and trillions in stimulus spending and the proposals for even more massive spending by the Biden administration has pushed things past the tipping point where inflation is now taking off in the US economy.

Cheers!

[vtsnowedin]

In regards to the money supply there is another generator of wealth seldom considered and that is the paper wealth or potential wealth of stock prices.
Consider yesterday's activity with Apple one of the largest corporations in the world. It closed yesterday at $149.48 per share up just 22 cents per share for the day with 61.42 million shares being traded yesterday.
But there are 16.5 Billion shares of Apple stock out there so just 0.0037% of that total was traded for 9.1 billion dollars of new money.
At the same time the other 99.9963% went up in potential value 22 cents per share for a total of 3.6 billion$ of money that has never actually existed and really only exist as long as the stock price of Apple stays at $149.48 or higher.
Now consider all the stock market and the shares that were net positive for the day. The S&P 500 index was up 0.30% so with it's market Cap. of 38.23 Trillion that was a creation of new wealth(money) of 11.5 billion on a slow day.

[Newfie]

Neither party has figured out how to get off the hamster wheel of stimulus. I'm not sure we want them to.
https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/economy/effect-stimulus-checks-on-inflation-overall-economy/

IMHO they do Not want to get off the wheel. Both parties are using the “money” to buy votes. What the politicians are interested in above all else is obtaining and retaining office.

[Newfie]

In regards to the money supply there is another generator of wealth seldom considered and that is the paper wealth or potential wealth of stock prices.
Consider yesterday's activity with Apple one of the largest corporations in the world. It closed yesterday at $149.48 per share up just 22 cents per share for the day with 61.42 million shares being traded yesterday.
But there are 16.5 Billion shares of Apple stock out there so just 0.0037% of that total was traded for 9.1 billion dollars of new money.
At the same time the other 99.9963% went up in potential value 22 cents per share for a total of 3.6 billion$ of money that has never actually existed and really only exist as long as the stock price of Apple stays at $149.48 or higher.
Now consider all the stock market and the shares that were net positive for the day. The S&P 500 index was up 0.30% so with it's market Cap. of 38.23 Trillion that was a creation of new wealth(money) of 11.5 billion on a slow day.

This is what I call “fake” money, or more accurately “value” It does not truly exist. As you point out small fluctuations have huge impacts. But noting in the material world has changed.

That “money” is not accessible but is locked into the identity of the corporation. It Gates decided to sell his stock it would crash MS.

It is also a reason why I have a hard time investing. It is a bit like betting in when someone will awake from a dream.

[Revi]

Very interesting point by vtsnowedin. The whole economy is a big ponzi scheme. It started with the Dutch and their tulip bulb booms. Followed by all sorts of manias and busts. It's going to come crashing down, but the markets can remain irrational longer that we can remain solvent. (paraphrasing)

[vtsnowedin]

Very interesting point by vtsnowedin. The whole economy is a big ponzi scheme. It started with the Dutch and their tulip bulb booms. Followed by all sorts of manias and busts. It's going to come crashing down, but the markets can remain irrational longer that we can remain solvent. (paraphrasing)

The stock market is far from being a Ponzi scheme. More like a value market with a bit of Ponzi scheme added on top of it.
There is the underlying value of company assets, factories, stores, material stocks, patents,etc. along with it's profit streams and dividend payouts that constitute the book value of each company. Even if a Gates or Musk sold all their personal stock in their companies the price would settle down near that book value at least after the panic's dust settled. Most companies have such real assets that underlie the major part of their stock price. Crypto currencies on the other hand have Zero value beyond what speculators think they are worth.
But beyond" Book Value"there is often a speculation value people add to a stock betting that the future will increase those profits or in the case of Bears shorting a stock betting the future holds doom for it.
The percentage of a stock's price that is above book value has increased over time from almost zero in 1980 to 30 percent in 2016 (Shown in John Bogle's book that year)
on to some figure I do not have at hand today.
Consider Tesla selling at 289 X earnings. That stock's book value is probably around $60/ share and the rest of it's current $909 price is speculation on Musk's ability to deliver in the future. Compare that to Sturm Ruger selling at 10.11X earnings and paying a 3.93 % dividend or Pfizer selling at 19.66X earnings and paying a dividend of 3.64%.
You can ,and probably should, stick with the tried and true stocks that have steady growth and dividend payouts but few of those will ever double or triple in value for you so an occasional bet on some new company that has an innovative product that might be a winner has much better odds then scratch tickets.

[Newfie]

VT,

Displaying my ignorance here.

Where do you easily come up with those “book value” numbers?

I think you and I are saying something similar, and thanks for your explanation. It gave me some additional insight into what I was trying to say.

[vtsnowedin]

VT,

Displaying my ignorance here.

Where do you easily come up with those “book value” numbers?

I think you and I are saying something similar, and thanks for your explanation. It gave me some additional insight into what I was trying to say.

It used to be you could subscribe to, or go to the library and read, the S&P's stock guide that had all their stocks listed with that information and much more. Today that has gone away or at least online to where I can't find it.
For individual stocks I go to my Fidelity account and research it's page then scroll down to "Key statistics" It pulls up a page that shows : For Ruger:

Market Cap $1.40B $1.57B
P/E (Trailing Twelve Months) 10.18 21.54
P/E (5-Year Average) 18.27 62.98
PEG Ratio (5-Year Projected) -- 1.92
--
Enterprise Value $1.23B $13.06B
Price/Cash Flow (Most Recent Quarter) 6.79 8.49
Price/Cash Flow (TTM) 8.38 14.18
Price/Sales (Most Recent Quarter) 1.75 3.74
Price/Sales (TTM) 2.00 3.79
Price/Book 5.02 10/22/2021 9.62

Book Value 18.14 06/30/2021 10.51

[vtsnowedin]

By way of comparison Fidelity has Tesla's Book value at $27.49 as of 9-30-21.

[Plantagenet]

One of Biden's big campaign promises was to return "civility" to politics.

But that isn't working out so well....

Biden-s-critics-hurl-increasingly-vulgar-taunts

Its hard to miss the thousands of people at football games chanting "#$%$ Joe Biden #$%$ Joe Biden" on live TV.

The lack of civility is part of the culture now.

Joe and the Ds contributed to it with their vulgar taunts directed at Trump and the Rs for the last four years.

Now Joe and the Ds are in charge, and their incompetence and shortcomings are fueling a new cycle of taunts at Joe.


Ohmigosh......Biden is the target of vulgar taunts! How uncivil!!!

Cheers!

[Revi]

One of Biden's big campaign promises was to return "civility" to politics.

But that isn't working out so well....

Biden-s-critics-hurl-increasingly-vulgar-taunts

Its hard to miss the thousands of people at football games chanting "#$%$ Joe Biden #$%$ Joe Biden" on live TV.

The lack of civility is part of the culture now.

Cheers!

That's for sure. It seems like the Trumpers are really into yelling. They are probably happy to have someone to blame it all on.

[Plantagenet]

One of Biden's big campaign promises was to return "civility" to politics.

But that isn't working out so well....

Biden-s-critics-hurl-increasingly-vulgar-taunts

Its hard to miss the thousands of people at football games chanting "#$%$ Joe Biden #$%$ Joe Biden" on live TV.

The lack of civility is part of the culture now.


Ohmigosh......Biden is the target of vulgar taunts! How uncivil!!!


Cheers!

That's for sure. It seems like the Trumpers are really into yelling. They are probably happy to have someone to blame it all on.

No doubt.

And its not just the Trumpers yelling at Joe. Joe's poll numbers are in the toilet with independents too!

And normally the Ds have a lock on the youth vote, but an awful lot of the vulgar taunts directed at Joe Biden are coming from College students, who have taken up chanting "#$%$^ Joe Biden" at college football games.

I predict if Joe's poll numbers keep going down then even the Ds will start screaming vulgar taunts at Joe.

Already VP Camela Harris is making uncivil moves to undermine Joe and boost her own visibility and the Ds in Congress are personally attacking each other in most uncivil ways.....how much longer until the entire D party breaks into uncivil efforts to force Joe out of office?

Cheers!

[vtsnowedin]

Already VP Camela Harris is making uncivil moves to undermine Joe and boost her own visibility and the Ds in Congress are personally attacking each other in most uncivil ways.....how much longer until the entire D party breaks into uncivil efforts to force Joe out of office?

Cheers!

Would you care to give us an example of these undermining moves?
So far I see her doing such a poor job as VP that the leadership as well as rank and file Democrats are reluctant to push Joe out for fear she will do an even more disastrous job and gut any chance of Democrats holding power for the next decade.

[Newfie]

VT,

Displaying my ignorance here.

Where do you easily come up with those “book value” numbers?

I think you and I are saying something similar, and thanks for your explanation. It gave me some additional insight into what I was trying to say.

It used to be you could subscribe to, or go to the library and read, the S&P's stock guide that had all their stocks listed with that information and much more. Today that has gone away or at least online to where I can't find it.
For individual stocks I go to my Fidelity account and research it's page then scroll down to "Key statistics" It pulls up a page that shows : For Ruger:

Market Cap $1.40B $1.57B
P/E (Trailing Twelve Months) 10.18 21.54
P/E (5-Year Average) 18.27 62.98
PEG Ratio (5-Year Projected) -- 1.92
--
Enterprise Value $1.23B $13.06B
Price/Cash Flow (Most Recent Quarter) 6.79 8.49
Price/Cash Flow (TTM) 8.38 14.18
Price/Sales (Most Recent Quarter) 1.75 3.74
Price/Sales (TTM) 2.00 3.79
Price/Book 5.02 10/22/2021 9.62

Book Value 18.14 06/30/2021 10.51

Thanks

[Newfie]

Here is a peek into why I am so very disappointed in my Lefty friends.

Just a bit if a shared email thread, the original is about some video I have not seen. I think it was called “Time for a National Divorce.”

Thanks, Ken, for sharing a GREAT watch. I am guilty of a lot of what Bill Maher was pointing out, i.e. being glad that COVID deniers dying off were diminishing the Republican voter base.

Hate is easier to do than love. We all must try harder to avoid the former and embrace the latter.

[Revi]

Here is a peek into why I am so very disappointed in my Lefty friends.

Just a bit if a shared email thread, the original is about some video I have not seen. I think it was called “Time for a National Divorce.”

Thanks, Ken, for sharing a GREAT watch. I am guilty of a lot of what Bill Maher was pointing out, i.e. being glad that COVID deniers dying off were diminishing the Republican voter base.

Hate is easier to do than love. We all must try harder to avoid the former and embrace the latter.

Those trumpeters are pretty easy to dislike. They're disrupting school board meetings and making life miserable for a lot of people. They're like the schoolyard bullies, but in the middle of a pandemic they refuse to abide by any commonsense measures. It's fun to pick on Joe and the democrats, but what we're in is a crisis caused by peak oil and a virus. If another wacko gets elected it could be worse. I know that this is the hate on Democrats thread, but we know what's really going on.
https://www.npr.org/2021/10/21/1047334766/school-board-threats-race-masks-vaccines-protests-harassment

[Plantagenet]

Those trumpeters are pretty easy to dislike. They're disrupting school board meetings and making life miserable for a lot of people.

Do you mean like the poor guy in Virgina whose daughter was raped by a transgender student in the girl's bathroom at school?

For heavens sake.....do you expect the poor guy to just shut up and not protest after what happened to his daughter?

His daughter was raped in the school bathroom after the school board said biologically male students who said they were female could go into the girls bathroom. And then after the rape the school board tried to protect the transgender rapist. The libs on the school board lied about the rape and tried to cover it up.

And then the school board sent the transgender student to another school

Where he committed ANOTHER sexual assault.

IMHO that dad had a perfect right to protest the crazy lies of the school board after it tried to cover up the sexual assault on his daughter. He did a good thing bringing attention to the lies and crazy policies of the school board and IMHO he should be applauded for refusing to be silenced after his daughter was raped. Who knows how many more girls the transgender boy might have raped if this dad hadn't stood up and blown the cover the cover off the school board cover up.

calls-grow-for-loudoun-county-school-officials-to-resign-after-2-rapes-tied-to-trans-bathroom-policy


This is Mr. Smith---the poor guy who was protesting after his daughter was raped at school by a transgender student and the liberals who run the school board lied about it and covered it up. And when he protested at a school board meeting the school board called the police and had him arrested and forcibly removed from the meeting. On the bright side his protest brought media attention down on the crazy policies of the libs on the school board and now they are being sued and pressured to resign in disgrace.

SHEEESH!

[Newfie]

Here is a peek into why I am so very disappointed in my Lefty friends.

Just a bit if a shared email thread, the original is about some video I have not seen. I think it was called “Time for a National Divorce.”

Thanks, Ken, for sharing a GREAT watch. I am guilty of a lot of what Bill Maher was pointing out, i.e. being glad that COVID deniers dying off were diminishing the Republican voter base.

Hate is easier to do than love. We all must try harder to avoid the former and embrace the latter.

Those trumpeters are pretty easy to dislike. They're disrupting school board meetings and making life miserable for a lot of people. They're like the schoolyard bullies, but in the middle of a pandemic they refuse to abide by any commonsense measures. It's fun to pick on Joe and the democrats, but what we're in is a crisis caused by peak oil and a virus. If another wacko gets elected it could be worse. I know that this is the hate on Democrats thread, but we know what's really going on.
https://www.npr.org/2021/10/21/1047334766/school-board-threats-race-masks-vaccines-protests-harassment

Revi,

For ME it is not hate on Democrats. I am pretty disappointed in the extremes on both sides. Lots of damn poor behavior, not justifiable no matter which party or affiliation.

What gripes me about this particular crowd, who I quoted above, is that their motto is “Act so as to bring out the best in others.” Nice motto. I was deeply involved with this small religious group for over 20 years and though I had found something of an intellectual or moral home. But I now see that despite the outward face they are just as hateful, bigoted and tribal as any other group can be.

When I see bigotry and tribal behavior front he right I expect it, for me it has always been there. When I see it from the Left, I feel betrayed because it was my haven.

I don’t expect you to understand my disappointment and discouragement. And my post above needed some context to make my position clear.
……

To go a bit further, I have oft posted my list if 5 BIG concerns and noted that neither party addresses any of those concerns. I worked pretty darn hard to educate this particular left group on climate change. I tried to get them engaged. But I had nearly zero effect.

I also run up against some pretty hard core resistance from the right and it is damn frustrating.

What aggravates me is when the Left use CC as a political rallying point while their policies and understanding are just as bad or worse than the Right.

Of the folks that I talk to only a few truly grasp the depth of the problem. And that is not correlated to political affiliation. Of the few who do “get it”, they could be D or R or unaffiliated. But they are seldom, if ever, extreme in their political view. The point is they have taken the time to think it through. Which means they don’t generally follow the crowd.

[JuanP]

It looks like Biden is not polling very well. I agree with Newfie above. I never expected anything from the Republican Party, so they can't disappoint me, but I expected better from the Dems, and they have disappointed me sooooooooooooo much, that now I dislike them more than I dislike Repubs.

And in the USA during the past decade the left has become more aggressive, abusive, disrespectful, and intransigent than the right. I never expected to live through times like these. Things are much worse than I ever thought possible, and most people say I am a pessimist! The future looks bleak in today's USA!