careinke wrote:MonteQuest wrote:C8 wrote:Do you think overshoot will happen?
It's already happened. It occurred when we passed 2 to 3 billion.
Monte, Although I generally agree with you and Heinberg (except I think the carrying capacity could be made higher). The rich still have, and consume lots of sugar, their population should be flourishing, but it's declining. So, could you please help me resolve my cognitive dissonance over this? Preferably with no insults.
Rich needs to be clarified. Rich in things is different than rich in spiritual. There is rich in habitability. What needs to be found is the proper combination of the three. Habitability means finding the right local of place, people, and activity. Spirituality in our time of decline means learning to have less things but with more meaning. That is true prosperity in good or bad times. Often it is the case the greatest meaning comes in the most adverse times so all this is relative to circumstance too. Heroics is meaning in action. But let’s be clear heroics is often transitory so shooting for stability is always preferable for a rich place. My point is riches goes through ascending levels of abstraction that allows a mixture to achieve meaning
While I agree the Anthropocene is an era of human overshoot this is far too big a drama except for us to dwell on in the abstract. So what, humans are in overshoot. There is nothing that can be done about this in a planetary sense. We can cry over it or study it but we have no choice but to live in it. Nature will adjust us just as nature allowed us to go into overshoot. The real issue is you and your local of people, place, and activity. Look to strengthen it with more meaning and less things because we are in a paradigm of decline. If you are in a bad place and can then leave. I would not be in a mega city. Many suburbs are dead zones. Many ways of life are killing the spirit. Some have lots of things but little meaning.
That said there is only so much one can move. Just as species will seek out a new micro climate with the advent of climate change so to should you if you are dying in a holistic sense. A place of happiness can be with less things. Sometimes species are stuck without the ability to move and that may be your situation too. In the human case becuase of knowledge and tech we can adapt. The key is to adapt properly with a proper mix. If you are a techno optimist then unless the tech never stops, adaptation is futile in a continuous pursuit of more. If you are a REAL Green that embraces realistic green prepping then you will in this time of decline do decline in place or decline into a better place. Meaning will come from a journey of meaning not an end game of being an imaginary king in a castle that is just a mirage. You will be practicing triage, salvage, and hybridization of the old and new in REAL Green. Less not Moar powerful tech is the way now. Tech is part of the journey but tech should not be the meaning as is the case now.
Let’s just say you were in a different time then decline might not be what you do. Maybe you would grow and fill the land with things. Think of landing in the new world 500 years ago. The point I am making is emulate and follow the planet. Humans lose track of this and try to follow what is human fantasy instead of embracing what the planet is doing. Decline now becuase humans and the planet are in a succession of decline. In this process find your niche in destructive change. You may be kicked off your niche but then find a new one or perish. Many species do best with succession becuase other species are rooted out of their place opening up new ones. In this regards you can actually improve your lot in life when others are failing even though human civilization is in decline overall.
The planet is in general decline with localized failure but some places can be improved and a way of life can be a good one even in decline. For humans in regards to natural bounty nothing could be like the mid Holocene when the planetary ecosystem was at its maximum of productivity and complexity and human populations very low. This is again that abstraction we dwell in fantasizing about what was or could be. This does not mean a micro climate with productive niches offering riches cannot be found now. If you can seek this out. Even if you can't physically move and or poor in things you can spiritually move with acceptance giving meaning within your trap. Demons become angles in acceptance. But acceptance does mean somewhere there is grief and grief mean hardship and loss. There are no transcending consequences only transformation. Transformation can take a little and make a lot.
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