[americandream]

Religions are never peaceful and invariably serve the status quo. Having said that, I suspect that the OP is motivated by the flip side of Arab supremacy, namely European supremacy, both of which serve the vested interests of the same elites who are poisoning the Gulf, for example.

It may sound like I'm being predjudice

Yes, it does sound that way. The only reason to have a problem with an Islamic Europe is xenophobia, Islamophobia and white racism. There's nothing wrong with Islam. It's the religion of peace.

[Crazy_Dad]

Christians, Islamists - Whatever. I still find it hard to understand tha there are people who still think there are fairy's, gods, unicorns and honest politicians at the end of the yard or who will protect us from the infidels.

Can't we all just evolve? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrZcztxRquo

Give me the FSM any day. All religions do is protect sexual deviants, promote mysoginists, control the brain dead and preach hate. Phuk em. Yarr there be pirates!

[Pretorian]

Well obviously alien religion is just a small part of the package. Imagine a bunch of devout Cristian Negroids in Tirole cappies and short panties dancing German folk music with a half-a gallon beer glasses in hands. Obviously you cant say that you dont want your nation/race to die off , that makes you a nazi or a racist automatically and we all know that its bad, heads in TV said so many times.

[americandream]

I think you confuse the demographic instability inherent in capitalism with its effects. There is no reason why anyone need move en masse anywhere on this globe were the conditions sufficient to meet their needs. Your forebears as Europeans (assuming you reside in America or one of the other European colonies) need never have left the continent had the conditions not compelled them to. Likewise with the Christian, tap dancing, pole vaulting Negroid. Nigeria for example, an oil rich state, is a client of the oil hungry West. Now whether we feel entitled to occupy negroids for oil or not, the act of creating mismanaged client states has effects in our countries and neighbourhoods just as if you were to run a round your country razing the homes of all your own Negroids, there would be consequences for you in your own neighbourhood. Cause and effect. Hitler and his own actions have left us with todays world with an unstable ME and a paranoid Israel. No amount of foaming at the mouth, cursing, and other general silliness alters the effects of our causes.

In large measure, managing the world in a rational manner (and I don't mean suddenly being overwhelmed by neighbourly love for the Negroid) has effects that can be of benefit to us all. I am utterly against charity for example, but I am in favour of informing people to the degree that they can take responsibility for themselves.

Well obviously alien religion is just a small part of the package. Imagine a bunch of devout Cristian Negroids in Tirole cappies and short panties dancing German folk music with a half-a gallon beer glasses in hands. Obviously you cant say that you dont want your nation/race to die off , that makes you a nazi or a racist automatically and we all know that its bad, heads in TV said so many times.

[Uranian22]

The West stopped believing in itself long ago and is exhausted from wars and general attrition. Nevertheless, if oil depletion is going to be so bad as this forum indicates, then history will return to its balancing act. As far as I know, white christian types still control the food.

There is nothing as certain as food.

-Stalin

[americandream]

Presuming that you are a white christian type, do YOU control anything? Do your neighbours and those in your class? Will there be sufficient surplus to continue with the process of private wealth creation in some more rudimentary feudal form and will it involve the use of human labour given that oil and other major commodities will be in short supply? Whose labour will it be and who will determine how that labour is applied?

Just a few pertinent questions given that you seem to contamplate a return back to a past time (when the facts weren't quite the same). Now, the picture is complicated by heavily armed power blocs and alliances between the various ethnic elites that override their ethnic loyalties. China, Saudi Arabia and Wall Street for example to name a few. Incredible wealth and opulence that they aren't going to relinquish for loyalties to people they have nothing in common with other than accident of birth.

It's here that the flashpoint with capitalism arises.

The West stopped believing in itself long ago and is exhausted from wars and general attrition. Nevertheless, if oil depletion is going to be so bad as this forum indicates, then history will return to its balancing act. As far as I know, white christian types still control the food.

There is nothing as certain as food.

-Stalin

[sparky]

.

Is Europe dying

yes ! but don't worry , it is a fat old woman publicly employed crisis

pensions and extravagant health coverage are wholly to the benefit of the woman class
that's why they keep voting for politicians who promote total social cover and cheap wage slave labor

democracy is a tool for the most greedy to get the goodies for a ( short ) time !
"I'm OK jack, so stuff the rest " type of thinking

Women health cost , pensions and public employment dwarf any other group ,
they will whine until kingdom come to protect their racket

to share power with women is like sharing in a divorce ,
she get the assets , the man get the bills

.

[americandream]

Wow. Racism, sexism....we have it all here folks.

[Pretorian]

I think you confuse the demographic instability inherent in capitalism with its effects. There is no reason why anyone need move en masse anywhere on this globe were the conditions sufficient to meet their needs. Your forebears as Europeans (assuming you reside in America or one of the other European colonies) need never have left the continent had the conditions not compelled them to. Likewise with the Christian, tap dancing, pole vaulting Negroid. Nigeria for example, an oil rich state, is a client of the oil hungry West. Now whether we feel entitled to occupy negroids for oil or not, the act of creating mismanaged client states has effects in our countries and neighbourhoods just as if you were to run a round your country razing the homes of all your own Negroids, there would be consequences for you in your own neighbourhood. Cause and effect. Hitler and his own actions have left us with todays world with an unstable ME and a paranoid Israel. No amount of foaming at the mouth, cursing, and other general silliness alters the effects of our causes.

In large measure, managing the world in a rational manner (and I don't mean suddenly being overwhelmed by neighbourly love for the Negroid) has effects that can be of benefit to us all. I am utterly against charity for example, but I am in favour of informing people to the degree that they can take responsibility for themselves.

Well obviously alien religion is just a small part of the package. Imagine a bunch of devout Cristian Negroids in Tirole cappies and short panties dancing German folk music with a half-a gallon beer glasses in hands. Obviously you cant say that you dont want your nation/race to die off , that makes you a nazi or a racist automatically and we all know that its bad, heads in TV said so many times.

The conditions ARE sufficient. Except for a very, very few war-ravaged places on Earth , people live better than they had ever lived (discounting occasional better-off periods in the last few decades or disputable stone-age period), working the littlest to have lots, ets. Many millions (billions?) don't do anything of value whatsoever yet eat very well, all over the world. There are probably 40 000 calories worth of food produced daily for every humanoid that is out there. People move because they are greedy, because its never enough for them thats it. One of the major reasons why communism will never be possible

[americandream]

People are essentially a blank slate driven by instinctual urges but nevertheless, blank until conditioned, but always subject to our core state. In your case for example, you blithely point the finger whilst failing to see the reflection in the mirror, a common enough syndrome in this world where in being conditioned to consume voraciously, consuming being a natural urge as I have pointed out above, we fail to see our own complicity in the failure that surrounds us, instead passing the buck with the approriate pejorative, as if that makes a difference in the grand scheme of things.

We get to hear the usual excuses as well, one favourite one being that we are greedy. I am sure that given the right circumstances, any range of human behaviour can be inculcated. Note I use the term "right circumstances" as our environment ultimatey acts as the compulsion that insitgates change and that essentially is the thrust behind Marx's materialist dialecticism. It's a subtle message, misunderstood in large part due to it being written at a time when the frontiers of surplus were being extended by expansionism, but very appropriate in the sunset of capitalist resourcing.

[sparky]

.
Americandream , this week we had a guy who got grievously injured at work and learned of an old timer who died less than two year after retiring , a very common occurrence .
at the same time there was a woman on the TV talking of unequal wages ,
I was looking at her hands , they were nicely manicured
The way I look at it , there is a lot of folks who draw wages for not doing very much

.

[Pretorian]

[I believe you are speaking of a select subset of humans: big fat obese slovenly self-centered pigs called AMERICANS!

No I was speaking about Hominidae in general, may be with exeption for orangutans, but not sure.

There are not 40,000 calories of food for each person. In fact, it is the opposite. We humans have taken over and extended our reach across the planet and there is little biota that had not been commandeered by humans. The few calories we actually do grow depend on 10x-100x calories of fossil fuel.

whatever, there is still more food than needed to fill up all kittie's litterboxes with grain. Probably more than 40 000 calories per day per person. Not saying that I condone the price this bounty comes with, but thats a fact still.

[Pretorian]

.
Americandream , this week we had a guy who got grievously injured at work and learned of an old timer who died less than two year after retiring , a very common occurrence .
at the same time there was a woman on the TV talking of unequal wages ,
I was looking at her hands , they were nicely manicured
The way I look at it , there is a lot of folks who draw wages for not doing very much

.

Well thats the deal now, 90% of population does not have to work now, most likely you including, so they have to look busy in a variety of ways. You cant just let them have it without making them run in their little wheel, you will never be able to make them work ever again if you do. (look for situation with Negroids in Northern cou ntries) And how will you explain the remaining 5-10% that they do need to do real work while everybody else doesnt? Thats why we have to do each other's laundry, massages and haircuts while these 5% are working.

[Pretorian]

But underneath it all you still are the same old national socialist?

What do you mean by "underneath" and " still" ? Yes I do think that limited by cap and inheritance taxes Capitalism with a strong government that respects national and racial borders would work the best. What else can keep human numbers and their consumption in check? Democracy?

[Stealth]

I thought depopulation was good, and now suddenly Europe is "dying". And no, Europe will not be "mayority muslim" in 2050. It's true that the birth rate among Muslim immigrants is higher, but they currently constitute less than 5% of the EU population and their birthrate is dropping as time goes on.

The EU now also has more restrictive emigration policies than a decade or two ago.

Of course, as the population drops, the wellfare systems will have to be adjusted (this mostly concerns public pensions). Through a combination of higher retirement age and additional fundraising from people / companies that don't currently pay into the scheme, and other means we should be able to deal with the transition. Of course that doesn't take into account problems that will arise from energy constraints etc. but how that plays out exactly is still unpredictable.

[americandream]

It is evident that you aren't a seasoned capitalist nor have ever engaged in investment and capital enhancement of that magnitude.

Fundamental to capitalism is the urge for annual growth. Growth is a pure numbers game dependant on new markets. A fascist order premised on a crude mix of the free market and social engineering will ultimately be overwhelmed by the growth urge and all the mechanisms that entails in order for the growth impulse to be fully accommodated. In other words, fascism is at best an interim measure and MUST, as a function of its capitalist character, ultimately give way to the full flowering of that capitalist character.

Sure, you and perhaps a generation or two will enjoy the benefits of a volkishly engineered society in the event of a fascist revolution, but the cosmpolitan character of capitalism must finally assert itself in due course. You can take some comfort from a generation or two, but a 1000 year Reich with capitalism in the mix. Nah!

But underneath it all you still are the same old national socialist?

What do you mean by "underneath" and " still" ? Yes I do think that limited by cap and inheritance taxes Capitalism with a strong government that respects national and racial borders would work the best. What else can keep human numbers and their consumption in check? Democracy?

[Pretorian]

This is a bullshit story. All the difference between a Capitalism and a Socialism is an ability of an individual to own means of production. Thats it. You either can have it, or you can not. There is no person out there that cares about someone else's property as much as about his own. This is why Socialism rots through everywhere. This is why East Germany and Yugoslavia, that allowed people to own small farms and shops were better off than any other Socialist country. There is no imperative need to grow for an economy in order to be Capitalistic. This is just a bullshit you like to believe in.

[americandream]

Environment determines what we are capable of. And infinite growth defines capitalism. Whilst the capacity exists for surplus to be generated, there wil be a variety of forms of growth ranging from the feudal, through fascism and national socialism with an auto for each member of the Volk, through to full blown capitalism. Where capitalism, the environment and its resources cross on the graph, is where a collectivised society is compelled and you will conform.

This is a bullshit story. All the difference between a Capitalism and a Socialism is an ability of an individual to own means of production. Thats it. You either can have it, or you can not. There is no person out there that cares about someone else's property as much as about his own. This is why Socialism rots through everywhere. This is why East Germany and Yugoslavia, that allowed people to own small farms and shops were better off than any other Socialist country. There is no imperative need to grow for an economy in order to be Capitalistic. This is just a bullshit you like to believe in.

[eastbay]

I think you're both right. With capitalism it's a severe economy managed in a manner pitting man vs man. With communism it's the other way around.

But either way you prefer it to be is meaningless because the future will sport for us all a form of communism whether we like it or not. The coming economic collapse the feature the starving and dispossessed poor voting the wealth clinging in the few hands into their own hands. All discussion about what's good/bad, right/wrong, efficient/inefficient, about one or the other system is indeed quite pointless. Sorry about this. There is really no option.

[americandream]

You have it there EB. As if we ever really had a choice. All choice to date has been illusory and supported by a fecund earth, including religion.

I think you're both right. With capitalism it's a severe economy managed in a manner pitting man vs man. With communism it's the other way around.

But either way you prefer it to be is meaningless because the future will sport for us all a form of communism whether we like it or not. The coming economic collapse the feature the starving and dispossessed poor voting the wealth clinging in the few hands into their own hands. All discussion about what's good/bad, right/wrong, efficient/inefficient, about one or the other system is indeed quite pointless. Sorry about this. There is really no option.