[evilgenius]

I'm not against immigration. I'm against lack of commitment by immigrants. I hate it when people come here, make money, then send it back to where they came from to support everybody back there. Everything about the contemporary immigrant experience is the same as the historical one in the US, except that. The Ocean used to make certain that kind of connection draining immigrants was lost. People had pictures of their long lost relatives and that was about it. They didn't send them money. Modern ways of moving around money don't care about the ocean.

Personally, if I was in charge I would put a 35% or so tax on money sent to other countries by people who aren't citizens of the US. That's pretty much equivalent to the highest tax bracket. After all, those back home are basically getting an income, and they ought to pay tax on it. I'd provide a real incentive to induce people to spend their money within the economies within which they earn it. I would make an exception for those who can prove they are actually sending the money to themselves, to their own accounts for saving purposes. Those people need also to have already paid tax on that money to qualify, though.

[dissident]

I'm not against immigration. I'm against lack of commitment by immigrants. I hate it when people come here, make money, then send it back to where they came from to support everybody back there. Everything about the contemporary immigrant experience is the same as the historical one in the US, except that. The Ocean used to make certain that kind of connection draining immigrants was lost. People had pictures of their long lost relatives and that was about it. They didn't send them money. Modern ways of moving around money don't care about the ocean.

Personally, if I was in charge I would put a 35% or so tax on money sent to other countries by people who aren't citizens of the US. That's pretty much equivalent to the highest tax bracket. After all, those back home are basically getting an income, and they ought to pay tax on it. I'd provide a real incentive to induce people to spend their money within the economies within which they earn it. I would make an exception for those who can prove they are actually sending the money to themselves, to their own accounts for saving purposes. Those people need also to have already paid tax on that money to qualify, though.

A very good idea, it is a fair tax on income being generated abroad. But the problem is that most immigrants are on welfare and not exactly working jobs and sending lots of money abroad. Of course, in the long term there is economic assimilation but all the people claiming some sort of immediate stimulus are full of it. The EU is discovering this pattern in very clear way. Basically all over 95% of the immigration flood over the last two years is jobless. But the crime wave is immediate.

[Outcast_Searcher]

And booting out illegal immigrants is a great idea, the only problem being that it leads to only one place, that most Americans might not be fond of, if they have the courage to look into their past.

Ah, this illogical argument.

Well, let's see. Do YOU take responsibility for all past slavery? Hundreds of years before you were born? The crusades? The inquisition? Of course not, unless you're insane. So why are you and I expected to be responsible for the settling of America hundreds of years before we were born?

And since when do two or more wrongs make a right?

You're the one who (correctly) points out that facts and figures matter when discussing the cost of oil and/or the ETP model. So do you imagine that the US can magically feed, clothe, house, and care for the entire world just because liberals say immigration laws and property rights don't matter (while at the same time being in a frenzy about gun control and political correctness laws that "need" to be passed)?

If the world were a perfect place and limits didn't exist and resources didn't matter that would be one thing. Only very ignorant or misinformed people believe that is true, however.

And I'm not saying we should suddenly kick all the illegal aliens out. I AM saying we should actually make a coherent, enforceable set of legal rules re immigration (including illegal immigration), and then we should ENFORCE those rules. Just like we enforce rules about traffic and bank robberies.

[evilgenius]

I'm not against immigration. I'm against lack of commitment by immigrants. I hate it when people come here, make money, then send it back to where they came from to support everybody back there. Everything about the contemporary immigrant experience is the same as the historical one in the US, except that. The Ocean used to make certain that kind of connection draining immigrants was lost. People had pictures of their long lost relatives and that was about it. They didn't send them money. Modern ways of moving around money don't care about the ocean.

Personally, if I was in charge I would put a 35% or so tax on money sent to other countries by people who aren't citizens of the US. That's pretty much equivalent to the highest tax bracket. After all, those back home are basically getting an income, and they ought to pay tax on it. I'd provide a real incentive to induce people to spend their money within the economies within which they earn it. I would make an exception for those who can prove they are actually sending the money to themselves, to their own accounts for saving purposes. Those people need also to have already paid tax on that money to qualify, though.

A very good idea, it is a fair tax on income being generated abroad. But the problem is that most immigrants are on welfare and not exactly working jobs and sending lots of money abroad. Of course, in the long term there is economic assimilation but all the people claiming some sort of immediate stimulus are full of it. The EU is discovering this pattern in very clear way. Basically all over 95% of the immigration flood over the last two years is jobless. But the crime wave is immediate.

Gotta teach those people to be selfish, like real Americans! Seriously, in the US the most important difference is that we don't accept tribalism, religion or ethnicity as a replacement for individual responsibility. There is a fair amount of communal help that we do accept. A metaphor for it would be something like this story from my past. A long time ago I worked as a hotel clerk at a hotel that was owned by a Polish couple who had immigrated to the US during the Cold War. They hired people to work for them. Those hires weren't cherry picked out of the Polish population in the community. They took their chances and hired out of the general population. That was fair. They did have their family members work various shifts as well, though. It was some and some. By family I mean the owner's son or his wife. Bringing in some cousin who wasn't in the immediate line of inheritance would not have been fair. They didn't do that.

Another example of what I am talking about, on the converse side, might be the African immigrant who told me about how her brother begged her for some money so that he could get married. She said it was a year and a half later, and he wasn't any closer to getting married than before. Turns out, from speaking to many African immigrants, that the people back home think life is easy in the US. None of the immigrants from Africa think that. They all said they have a hard time with people back home asking them for money. They said that almost universally the people back home have no idea what it is like to have to hold down a job and make your way over here. They consider it hard, but worth it. They don't hate those people back home, obviously. Most still go back to visit, and then return. But certainly their experience with America has turned them into a different kind of person. They focus more on their own immediate families over the cultural call from the homeland. They seem to have a much more individuated sense of themselves than those still back home, who still have communal mindsets.

It's not immigration that you want to stop. What you should want is to prevent a perversion of the experience. It means something to become an American. Our ideals bring about a new state of being, depending upon where you come from. Obviously, other Western countries do think like us. I'm not trying to criticize, if criticism is the right word, them. I hope you can see my point, however.

[onlooker]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ahead.html
fast tracking deportations

Until recently, undocumented immigrants with no criminal records could delay their deportations. Last week, that appeared to be coming to an end.

[Newfie]

I never get what the issue is.

What is a country without a border? What is a border if it is not enforced?

Why would we allow illegal immigrants when we require legal immigrant applicants to go through extensive hoops?

Sure a lot of folks will get hurt in enforcing the laws. But won't more get hurt if we don't enforce the laws?

[onlooker]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/19/ameri ... index.html
The other migrant crisis: Thousands risk journey through Latin America

[KaiserJeep]

After 31 years living in an area with Latino and Asian gangs, I am looking forward to moving. Although Europeans are (barely) a majority here in Silicon Valley, for some reason they are largely peaceful and not prone to gang violence. I have been on more than one jury passing judgement on gang bangers, and I know of what I speak.

Make no mistake, the desire for peace and freedom from crime is what is motivating people to support Trump's wall. Nor is it anything new. Do you remember the name of Ellis Island, or it's West Coast equivalent Angel Island? These were immigration centers from 1892 to 1954. More than 25 million people legally immigrated over both oceans through these places, while approximately one and a half times that many snuck in illegally over our Souther Border.

I am not opposed to immigration. I am opposed to criminal immigration, without our permission to enter our country, without a medical exam for communicable diseases, and without registration, the issuing of ID's, and SSN's for paying taxes. I'll even throw in free English lessons, on the taxpayer.

I believe in immigration, the USA's "melting pot", and the pre-eminence of American Culture over anything an immigrant brings with him/her.

[onlooker]

Yes, agree gang violence and crime is something that is also illegally trespassing into this country. It will only get worse around the world unless some truly effective barrier/impediment is in place. A feature of this bifurcated world

[KaiserJeep]

I would remind all the lurkers and non-participating members that the USA was not built in a day, or without sacrifice. Those of us who live here today do so because our ancestors fought for freedom from colonial status, and we have welcomed legal immigrants ever since. In my family, there is a tradition of military service which is how we maintain the freedoms we cherish.

Your choices are to legally immigrate to our country, or remain in your own, and have your own revolution.

[Tanada]

Pictures and supporting information at link below quote.

When the radical agenda meets immigration
Liberal Democrats don’t like the broad term illegal immigrants, so the joke goes, as they much prefer to think of them as undocumented future registered Democrats.

Two recently elected Democrats, New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy and Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner, are so enamored with illegals that they appear to favor these non-citizens over the legal citizens who obey the law, pay taxes and just happened to have elected them to their respective offices.

One of Mr. Murphy’s first acts in office was the creation of the Office of Immigrant Protection. Although the governor has been vague on the details of the new office, his spokesman told reporters that the Office of Immigrant Protection will serve as a single point of contact for any New Jersey resident facing detention or deportation, with a focus on expanding access to legal services to these residents.

During his gubernatorial campaign, Mr. Murphy vowed to ban state and local police departments from assisting the federal government in “mass deportations.” And according to his campaign website, he also vowed to make life easier for our “undocumented neighbors.” He promised to provide driver’s licenses and statewide ID to illegal immigrants, extend in-state financial aid to the “Dreamers,” those brought illegally to the U.S. as children, increase access to professional licenses for immigrants, raise the minimum wage, guarantee earned sick leave, and strengthen workplace protections.

Under the new governor, New Jersey will also join other states in a lawsuit that challenges President Trump’s authority to end a program that allows Dreamers to avoid deportation.

Across the Delaware River from New Jersey in Philadelphia, Larry Krasner, the recently elected Philadelphia district attorney, also has announced the creation of a new top position in his office that is solely dedicated to protecting the “rights” of illegal immigrants.

During his campaign for DA, which was funded in large part by a huge donation from leftist billionaire George Soros, Larry Krasner vowed to fight what he deemed to be President Trump’s anti-immigration agenda. He promised to maintain Philadelphia’s status as a “sanctuary city” and protect the Fourth Amendment rights of all residents, regardless of legal status. He stated that he would cooperate with federal authorities only to the degree required by law.

This stance puts the new DA in lockstep with Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney, another liberal Democrat. Mayor Kenney has declared Philadelphia a “welcoming city,” much preferring this term to “sanctuary city.”

Mr. Krasner also opposes the access of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers to the PARS database, a city police database used to identify illegal immigrants.

When he announced Caleb U. Arnold, an immigration attorney, as the newly created position of immigration counsel in the prosecutor’s office, Mr. Krasner told reporters that the counsel will aid immigrants travel through the criminal justice system without facing “disproportionate consequences” like deportation. The written announcement also made a point of advising reporters that the new immigration counsel uses gender-neutral pronouns

The new counsel, he said, will advise prosecutors on minimizing the impact of criminal convictions for immigrants, especially those facing low-level convictions like minor drug offenses. They’ll also help build relationships with the city’s immigrant communities.

Michael Meehan, the chairman of the Republican Party in Philadelphia, opposes the position and the appointee, noting that Caleb U. Arnold was a radical activist who was arrested at the 2000 Republican National Convention in Philadelphia while protesting the death penalty

“The layers of lawlessness here are unreal. You have a radical leftist activist, who has been previously arrested, hired to be sure that documented criminals aren’t further subjected to the federal laws governing their immigration status,” Mr. Meehan said. “It is enough to make your head spin. Krasner is setting a precedent for dangerous levels of relativism that further erodes law and order in a city subject to some of the highest crime rates in the country, in all crime categories.”

The immigration counsel appointment was announced only a few weeks after Mr. Krasner dismissed 30 prosecutors, some of whom who were in the middle of prosecuting criminal cases, including murder and other serious crimes. The mass firing of the active, experienced prosecutors held up court proceedings and delayed justice for the victims and their families.

Mr. Krasner, formally a civil rights attorney who sued the Philadelphia Police Department 75 times and has represented anti-police groups like ACT UP and Black Lives Matter pro-bono, was opposed vehemently by most Philadelphia police officers during the election.

“This guy wants to protect illegal immigrants who commit crimes and lock up cops who are just doing their jobs,” an angry Philly cop said to me during the election. “He cares more for illegal immigrants than legal citizens and crime victims. He’s more concerned with radical politics than putting the bad guys away.”

TIMES

[Newfie]

I grew up in NJ and spent most of my working life in Philly.

It’s a good time to be from those places, very far from.

My Mother, Wife and DIL are all immigrants, legal immigrants. Although my Wife, being excessively honest, feels guilty for entering the USA on a visitors visa knowing she was going to marry here first husband here. So she feels “partly illegal”. Go figure, beyond reason to me. I blame Hitler, excessive German guilt. I see it in my SIL also, still in Germany, strongly supports the immigrants there.

Anyway, it’s a sore topic around our home.

[Subjectivist]

I have inlaws that skirt the line and it makes this a non topic at family get togethers.

[Revi]

Here's one of the reasons why the Caravan is happening:
https://reliefweb.int/report/guatemala/giews-update-central-america-drought-causes-crop-losses-dry-corridor-central

In the Dry Corridor, which is El Oriente in Guatemala, and a similar part of Honduras there has been a drought since at least 2016. These people are hungry!

[Revi]

I think we are looking at the problems associated with Climate Change and Peak Oil right now. There is a huge debt bubble here in the developed world. Meanwhile places such as Central America are falling apart right now.

There was a drought that is causing people to move.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/drought-leaves-up-to-2-8-million-hungry-in-central-america/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-americas-drought-un/two-million-risk-hunger-after-drought-in-central-america-un-idUSKCN1LN2AY

Some of those people are moving in a caravan towards the border. Will "our dear leader" welcome them, or will he kill some of them?

[onlooker]

Yep, it is getting very close to the era of lifeboat ethics!

[Tanada]

Here's one of the reasons why the Caravan is happening:
https://reliefweb.int/report/guatemala/giews-update-central-america-drought-causes-crop-losses-dry-corridor-central

In the Dry Corridor, which is El Oriente in Guatemala, and a similar part of Honduras there has been a drought since at least 2016. These people are hungry!

Horse Pucky!

These people are all well fed, they are wearing clean clothes and showing no signs of privation. Somebody is feeding, clothing and cleaning these people and arranging their route. Those same people could have much more easily supplied the entire bunch of them with relief supplies. This is a politically motivated stunt intended to force the USA to adopt an official policy of open borders, nothing less and certainly not a 'refugee crisis'.

[Cog]

If a country has the military wherewithal and the will, you can secure a border. We aren't there yet, but its coming.

[onlooker]

If a country has the military wherewithal and the will, you can secure a border. We aren't there yet, but its coming.

Trump is apparently sending a large military contingent to the border. Things could get out of hand.

[GHung]

If a country has the military wherewithal and the will, you can secure a border. We aren't there yet, but its coming.

If a country has the military wherewithal and the will to keep printing funny money, you can secure a border. ....

There, Fixed that for you Coggoid.