[careinke]

So I will stick with my original position. It seems remarkably similar to Trumps position, but my conclusion was made pre Trump. I did know about his suggestion that if companies hired Tech people because they could not find citizens qualified to do the job, they should pay them twice the going US rate.

That's not how it works here in the silly valley. M

Companies lobby for more H1B visas so they can hire cheaper labor than US citizens. Then these folks come here, live six people per pricey Silly Valley bedroom, real estate being so costly, and yet they STILL end up with better overall living conditions than in most countries, but we end up with many senior US citizens (like me for example) unemployed or retired early.

YES, it does happen.

Yes I know. That's why his suggestion would encourage the tech companies to hire Americans first. I would be willing to bet you would see the tech companies setting up their own tech schools to give Americans the skills they need. They are already doing some of this, but charging twice the US labor rate for 401b's would certainly encourage more of it. And the truly remarkable 401b's would be paid appropriately.

[Newfie]

We have all kinds of screwed up policies. On the one hand we argue we need foreign nationals because Americans don’t do STEM degrees. The. We argue we need illegals to do the jobs we Americans don’t want to do. And we have lowered our birth rate (good thing) but then we complain there are too few youngsters to support us oldsters in our dotage.

But we don’t argue these thoughts as the caravan approaches, now it’s all emotional bluster about those poor brown people, or are they gangsters?

[Cog]

They are invaders.

[Plantagenet]

They are criminals.

They’ve already broken Mexican law by crossing their border illeagally. Now they are out to criminally cross our border as well.

Cheers!

[Revi]

I have a friend who thought that the caravan will make it to the border and they will be massacred in order to get us used to it before it happens here. It was a very dark way to look at it, but I have to say it's not outside of the range of possibilities. That could help kick off the mass die off. We have big problems!

[Plantagenet]

Great photo in your post, Revi. THANKS! That exactly illustrates the scale of the immigration problem.

IMHO, We all know that one symptom of ecological collapse and economic and political collapse will be creation of refugees seeking to flee those areas that aren't prepared to do deal with TEOTWAWKI.

Well....I see that happening right now. Unprecedented number of refugees are streaming into Europe, and we are seeing record numbers of immigrants at the US southern border right now.

Its very tempting to do the "humanitarian" thing and welcome all the refugees in. Thats what Merkel and Europe did and a million refugees streamed into Europe during just one year. The problem is that this is not a one-time problem. We can't solve it by admitting refugees. Even if we let a million in a time, nothing changes, except it encourages even more refugees to try to get in. We are going to see nothing but more and more and more refugees trying to flee in the future. If we adopt a policy of allowing millions of refugees into the US and Europe now, then in ten years there will be tens of millions of refugees trying to get in.

We can't help everyone. We can't save everyone. Its just how it is. I think Trump is right that we should restrict immigration. Trump may have the wrong reasons and the wrong motives, but I think his policy of restricting mass immigration is the right policy.

Cheers!

[Tanada]

Not to be funny about it, but I see that cluster of 'refugees' who are threatening to invade and my mind goes 'What a perfect target for a Neutron Bomb. The infrastructure would be unharmed and the bodies easily collected after they stop kicking'.

This so called refugee caravan raises no sympathy in my soul and instead stokes a great anger that people who are clearly healthy and well fed are trying to game the system when there are millions of more deserving legitimate refugees being turned away every year.

[Tanada]

We have all kinds of screwed up policies. On the one hand we argue we need foreign nationals because Americans don’t do STEM degrees. The. We argue we need illegals to do the jobs we Americans don’t want to do. And we have lowered our birth rate (good thing) but then we complain there are too few youngsters to support us oldsters in our dotage.

But we don’t argue these thoughts as the caravan approaches, now it’s all emotional bluster about those poor brown people, or are they gangsters?

IMO when the Democratic Party abandoned the working class is the start of the whole mass immigrants = New D Voters syndrome.

In the 1930-60 era the Democrats were the party in favor of Joe6P in the sense of legislation and regulation that supported working class American citizens. When the ban on legal immigration was lifted at the end of the 1960's and tacit approval was given to illegal immigration for 'jobs Americans just wouldn't do' everything changed.

Sure the D's still pay lip service to Joe6P at election time, but as far as effective legislation and regulation they are as bad or worse than the R party. Instead of encouraging good schooling and opportunity for the lowest tier of Americans they have switched all their efforts to currying favor with the 'immigrant community' including tacit open borders policies. When the group 'La Raza' mounts protests waving Mexican flags and declaring the Southwest states should be returned to Mexico the D party politicians applaud! The name of the group literally translates as 'The Race' meaning the Hispanic population in context. At the same time they support all sorts of other non-white race/ethnicity based groups as well, like the 'New Black Panthers' or the 'Muslim Brotherhood' while decrying white racism at every turn.

If the D's would move back to supporting lower class Americans who just want a decent paying job and opportunity to live like their ancestors of 50 years ago lived they would resume control toot suite. If they insist on basing all their policies on welcoming in illegal aliens who drive down wages for lower class people while at the same time constantly calling all white people racists they will keep losing elections for a generation into the future.

[yellowcanoe]

If the D's would move back to supporting lower class Americans who just want a decent paying job and opportunity to live like their ancestors of 50 years ago lived they would resume control toot suite. If they insist on basing all their policies on welcoming in illegal aliens who drive down wages for lower class people while at the same time constantly calling all white people racists they will keep losing elections for a generation into the future.

It's just as screwed up here in Canada. Large scale immigration remains popular, especially among more highly educated, successful people. Even people who are concerned about climate change don't see any contradiction in supporting additional population growth via immigration. Those who favour immigration have been largely successful in promoting the idea that anyone who wants the immigration rate decreased must be a racist and/or xenophobic.

The window for doing anything about it is closing fast. The percentage of Canadians born outside of Canada is now in the low 20% range, a level not seen in at least the last 50 years. The Federal Government has announced its intention to increase the level of immigration from 310,000 a year to 340,000. It may not seem like much if you are American but it represents 1% of our population coming every year. When immigrants become such a large and growing part of your population, no politician wants to be seen as anti-immigrant.

I am sure that if we looked at immigration objectively we would conclude that large scale immigration is not in the best interests of Canadians. Of course the politicians are very careful not to open that Pandora's box -- it's so much easier to simply repeat over and over again that we need more immigrants to grow our economy.

[Cog]

These invaders were required to seek asylum in the first international boundary they crossed. For the Hondurans, that would be Guatemala. When the invaders broke through and attacked the Mexican federales at Mexico's southern border, they were offered asylum in Mexico . Some accepted and most rejected and proceeded north. The have zero right to claim asylum here in the usa.

If they get here they should be refused at the border. If they force the border, they have broken usa law, taken into custody, and need to be deported forthwith.

[Revi]

It's okay to deport them, but not to kill them. Unfortunately it will be a mess. Maybe get a bunch of busses ready to send them back to Central America? It's a long ride! We need to stop calling them invaders. They are just a bunch of desperate people.

[Cog]

It's okay to deport them, but not to kill them. Unfortunately it will be a mess. Maybe get a bunch of busses ready to send them back to Central America? It's a long ride! We need to stop calling them invaders. They are just a bunch of desperate people.

I don't care how desperate they are or how much sympathy you have for them. There is a legal manner to enter this country. There are legal ways to become residents and citizens of every country in the world. If you intend to breach the border of a country, in violation of the law, you are an invader and criminal period.

There will be no massacre of this caravan at the border, as much as you leftists would love to see one. Instead, they will be detained in tent camps and the left will howl their outrage about these poor desperate people are being so harshly treated.

[Cid_Yama]

Just to get this issue over with. The Hondurans appearing to arrive at our borders are probably the first climate refugees in this hemisphere. They will increase. We will have to decide how to deal with them. Now refer to the paragraph above

If the current administration would be honest about the fact that they were concerned about climate refugees, rather than all the nonsense they ascribe to their motives, we could have a reasonable conversation about it. But that would require admitting that the equatorial regions were becoming increasingly uninhabitable, causing people to move towards the poles.

I could understand wanting to stop the flow before they overwhelmed the habitability here by the numbers moving north.

But that would require admitting there was a problem. And requiring them to abandon the donor base that continues to make the situation worse.

It really doesn't matter. The IPCC didn't acknowledge that the emissions from the last ten years have already baked in a fatal temperature rise. Even if all emissions stopped today, both anthropogenic and natural, we have already moved beyond the threshold.

Of course they already know that. So they do what they do. Since nothing is going to make a bit of difference.

The goal now is to keep BAU going as long as possible. If the world were going to end day after tomorrow, they would want you to pay your bills and show up at work tomorrow.

[Revi]

I don't care how desperate they are or how much sympathy you have for them. There is a legal manner to enter this country. There are legal ways to become residents and citizens of every country in the world. If you intend to breach the border of a country, in violation of the law, you are an invader and criminal period.

There will be no massacre of this caravan at the border, as much as you leftists would love to see one. Instead, they will be detained in tent camps and the left will howl their outrage about these poor desperate people are being so harshly treated.

We'll see. It's entirely possible. Lots of people died in El Salvador and Guatemala in the 80's. I saw some of it happen.

[Newfie]

Cid,

Those are good points. NHSTA did accept IPCC estimates and that is something I don’t think even Obama did. It’s an enigma that this administration allowed such language, and it gives me some extreamly modest hope more honesty may be forth coming.

[onlooker]

The goal now is to keep BAU going as long as possible. If the world were going to end day after tomorrow, they would want you to pay your bills and show up at work tomorrow.

This is now plainly evident. Our species is on the very border of an epic economic, social and environmental collapse and yet do we hear from official sources , the political leadership structure or MSM any notification? A resounding NO. Oh but of course they don't want us to panic until the time comes to panic haha

[Newfie]

Which is why I think partaking in the “normal” conversation is worthless. It’s why my vote does not matter.

I prefer to try to change the conversation to one that embraces first principals. Then we can have some hope of honest and mindful communication.

[Ibon]

Oh but of course they don't want us to panic.

No they want you to panic.... but not over real issues, they deflect your angst toward scapegoats and bogeymen.

[Revi]

I have a friend who thinks that they will kill a lot of people in the Caravan. She thinks it will be a test to see if we react. First they took children away from their parents, then it will escalate to a massacre, just south of the border. These people are mostly Mayans, so it will be a continuation of the genocide that started with Alvarado and Tecun Uman.

She thinks that they will see what happens, and then they'll figure out what we will stand for. This time the slaughter will be visible from the border. In the 80's it was happening in El Salvador and Guatemala, out of the view of most of us.
I happened to be there, however...

[KaiserJeep]

What do you mean by "they", white man?