[Newfie]

FWIW I don’t think there will be any slaughter. I would be very disappointed if there was.

Trump is a lot of things but he does not seem to be excessively blood thirsty. And he is very sensitive about his image. I don’t think he wants blood on his hands.

That’s the fearmingering/panic at work.

[ROCKMAN]

Revi - Why would they bother wasting bullets killing them? From what I understand 95%+ of the asylums applications are rejected and then they are sent back. And why would they bother "slaughtering" that 5k to 7k group when 30k+ are now being captured monthly and returned? Also I believe there may be a plan to begin arresting many and imprisoning them for breaking the law and holding them for trial.

Just more childish hype IMO.

[Cog]

I have a friend who thinks that they will kill a lot of people in the Caravan. She thinks it will be a test to see if we react. First they took children away from their parents, then it will escalate to a massacre, just south of the border. These people are mostly Mayans, so it will be a continuation of the genocide that started with Alvarado and Tecun Uman.

She thinks that they will see what happens, and then they'll figure out what we will stand for. This time the slaughter will be visible from the border. In the 80's it was happening in El Salvador and Guatemala, out of the view of most of us.
I happened to be there, however...

Tell your friend that she is an idiot. It may help her survive life without being in a constant delusional state.

[onlooker]

They're will not be a slaughter but some shots could definitely befired and some casualties may occur

[Newfie]

That will happen in Chicago, NY, and LA. Maybe at the border as well.

[Cog]

If you wonder why states like New York and California welcome illegal aliens and try to shield them from deportation, then you need to understand how the census works. The census determines how many people live within a state and they count everyone including illegals. For the purposes of representation in Congress this gives those states a numerical advantage. Federal aid to cities and states for such things as welfare and education is also based on this same census information. Although technically, illegals aren't eligible for welfare, in practical ways they do get it through fake identification. California for instance allows them to attend school. Emergency rooms must treat everyone regardless of citizenship status.

So when you hear the usual suspects how caring they are about illegals, there is more than a little self interest involved. The plan right now is to include a citizenship question on the 2020 census and there is a lot of outrage on the left about this. Not because this information can be used to deport anyone, but because they are afraid illegals won't answer the census and thus not be counted.

But bottom line these illegals are fleeing quasi-socialist hell holes and the promises of free stuff from leftist states is very attractive to them. In their own countries, they vote for whatever leader promises them the most relief from the very socialist policies that have ruined their own country. In the USA they will do exactly the same thing. Do we want to base the direction and politics of this country on people who are breaking the law to get in here and are only interested in the "free stuff".

[yellowcanoe]

But bottom line these illegals are fleeing quasi-socialist hell holes and the promises of free stuff from leftist states is very attractive to them. In their own countries, they vote for whatever leader promises them the most relief from the very socialist policies that have ruined their own country. In the USA they will do exactly the same thing. Do we want to base the direction and politics of this country on people who are breaking the law to get in here and are only interested in the "free stuff".

Sure, some illegals just want to milk the system but I believe that far more of them are working hard at jobs that Americans generally do not want - picking crops, landscaping, lower skilled construction work, etc. Someone pointed out recently that the number of people trying to leave Latin American countries is really quite small relative to the number of people who are living in poverty and subject to violence and theft. The ones who are coming are highly motivated to find a better life for themselves and their children.

[Cog]

They are highly motivated to break US law by crossing the border, obtaining fake social security numbers, and using our emergency rooms for their routine medical care. Not to even mention the diseases they bring and the MS-13 gangs engaged in murder and sex trafficking. No thanks.

[vox_mundi]

(U//FOUO) U.S. Army North Operation Faithful Patriot Presentation

The Trump administration was informed that “only a small percentage” of Central American migrants traveling with several “caravans” headed toward the U.S. will likely make it to the border. The information was received before the administration moved ahead with plans to deploy more than 5,200 troops to the border, according to operational documents

Pentagon official outlining the deployment, dubbed Operation Faithful Patriot, reveal that the government continued its plans to send troops to the border despite anticipating that “based on historic trends...only a small (20%) percentage of migrants will likely reach the border.”

In an interview with Fox News’ Laura Ingraham on Monday, Trump appeared to dismiss reports on the caravans’ dwindling numbers, asserting that he was good at determining crowd sizes and knew there were “thousands and thousands” of people traveling with the caravans, based on coverage he had seen of migrants crossing a bridge into Mexico.

Border Troops Bracing for Possible Clashes With Armed Crackpot Militias of U.S. Citizens, Not Migrant Caravan

Documents show that U.S. troops are preparing for encounters not so much with the asylum seekers, but with armed white supremacist American crackpots at the U.S. border. Because they are ones with all the guns. Not the migrant caravan.

... “Preliminary intelligence assessments are preparing for encounters with a litany of groups from unregulated militias to transcontinental criminal organizations”

The assessment underscored news reports that combatant commanders might encounter unregulated militia members along the southern border in alleged support of U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents.

“Estimated 200 unregulated armed militia members currently operating along the southwest border. Reported incidents of unregulated militias stealing National Guard equipment during deployments. They operate under the guise of citizen patrols supporting CBP [Customs and Border Protection] primarily between POEs [Points of Entry],” according to the documents.

Militia groups and far-right activists have already announced plans to make their way to the U.S.-Mexico border with the aim of preventing caravan members from entering the country.

With the caravan still hundreds of miles away, it is unclear how many militia members will turn up. Among groups determined to help fortify the border, are members of the Minuteman Project.

Deployed Border Troops Preparing for Militias Stealing Their Gear, Protester Violence, Documents show

The 5,200 troops mobilizing to the U.S. southern border are headed there to deter a caravan of migrants, but some of the direct threats they are preparing for are homegrown, according to documents obtained by Military Times.

In those documents, the military is concerned about the already dangerous drug cartels that operate with impunity on both sides of the border, armed U.S. citizens taking the law into their own hands — or pilfering their gear — and far-right or far-left protesters inciting violence.

Department of Defense Drops 'Operation Faithful Patriot' Title from Military Border Mission

The Pentagon is no longer calling the US military mission on the southern border "Operation Faithful Patriot," officials said Wednesday, opting to re-brand President Donald Trump's deployment of more than 8,000 troops as "border support" the day after the 2018 midterm elections.

The Pentagon did not give a reason for the name change or why they decided to change the name now.

The deployment has been questioned for its use of active-duty troops over National Guard forces, who would typically have the border security mission, and for its timing right before the Nov. 6 election.

The operation will now be referred to as "border support."

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, when questioned on the deployment Wednesday said: “We don’t do stunts in this department. thank you.”

DHS (U//FOUO):Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment

(U) Prepared by the Extremism and Radicalization Branch, Homeland Environment Threat Analysis Division. Coordinated with the FBI.

... (U//FOUO) Rightwing extremists were concerned during the 1990s with the perception that illegal immigrants were taking away American jobs through their willingness to work at significantly lower wages. They also opposed free trade agreements, arguing that these arrangements resulted in Americans losing jobs to countries such as Mexico.
(U//FOUO) Over the past five years, various rightwing extremists, including militias and white supremacists, have adopted the immigration issue as a call to action, rallying point, and recruiting tool. Debates over appropriate immigration levels and enforcement policy generally fall within the realm of protected political speech under the First Amendment, but in some cases, anti-immigration or strident pro-enforcement fervor has been directed against specific groups and has the potential to turn violent.
(U//FOUO) DHS/I&A assesses that rightwing extremist groups’ frustration over a perceived lack of government action on illegal immigration has the potential to incite individuals or small groups toward violence. If such violence were to occur, it likely would be isolated, small-scale, and directed at specific immigration-related targets.

— (U//FOUO) DHS/I&A notes that prominent civil rights organizations have observed an increase in anti-Hispanic crimes over the past five years.
— (U) In April 2007, six militia members were arrested for various weapons and explosives violations. Open source reporting alleged that those arrested had discussed and conducted surveillance for a machinegun attack on Hispanics.
— (U) A militia member in Wyoming was arrested in February 2007 after communicating his plans to travel to the Mexican border to kill immigrants crossing into the United States.

[Cog]

Nice vox mundi. You have successfully hit every single left wing talking point. That concern over border security is equal to racism. Congrats man.

Curiously though, you left out any mention of MS13 and their sex trafficking of minors. Must have slipped your mind.

[KaiserJeep]

The caravan is indeed dwindling, and the reasons are fairly simple. The George Soros funded semi trucks with food, water, and blankets are no longer supporting it. Because it was only ever a stunt to bring the topic of immigration to the surface for the mid term elections. But mostly because it failed in that last, and ended up garnering lots and lots of votes for the Republicans. The Blusturer-In-Chief himself used it to no small effect.

I'm still expecting SOMETHING, some fraction of it, to reach the border, and further sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Meanwhile it is being preyed upon by Mexican gangs. Children are being kidnapped for the sex trade, and will reach the USA well ahead of their families. Other folks are simply being robbed and otherwise preyed upon.

They of course ARE VICTIMS. Victims of the US Democrats, pretty much. Victims of the Mexican organized crime organizations as well. Of Trump or the Republicans, not so much. They will leverage the caravan to build the wall.

Maybe we can import sections of concrete from Berlin.

[onlooker]

Nice vox mundi. You have successfully hit every single left wing talking point. That concern over border security is equal to racism. Congrats man.

Curiously though, you left out any mention of MS13 and their sex trafficking of minors. Must have slipped your mind.

I do have to agree here with you Cog. It is well known that the southern border sees the regular trafficking of people and drugs into the US and guns from the US. Every country has a right to protect its border. So, racism or anti racism is NOT the issue. Increasingly going forward, the US does need to safeguard its border
from the wrong people and illicit and dangerous contraband entering. I am NOT going automatically to side with Democrats because my views on other matters tends to be on the far left

[vox_mundi]

Nice vox mundi. You have successfully hit every single left wing talking point. That concern over border security is equal to racism. Congrats man.

Curiously though, you left out any mention of MS13 and their sex trafficking of minors. Must have slipped your mind.

Spoon-feed yourself ... Or, hasn't your mom weaned you yet.

[onlooker]

The George Soros funded semi trucks with food, water, and blankets are no longer supporting it. Because it was only ever a stunt to bring the topic of immigration to the surface for the mid term elections.

Yes, this does appear to be a Democrat inspired plot to reign in votes. And yes, these people are likely going to be and are being preyed upon, being in non legal status areas. Basically, in a no Man's land

[Cog]

The new acting attorney general is not wasting time. No asylum claims from the caravan people will be entertained. Now we will see what some federal judge in Hawaii thinks about it.

The rule as released today:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/doj-and- ... sylum-rule

Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker and Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen today announced an Interim Final Rule declaring that those aliens who contravene a presidential suspension or limitation on entry into the United States through the southern border with Mexico issued under section 212(f) or 215(a)(1) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) will be rendered ineligible for asylum.

The Acting Attorney General and the Secretary issued the following joint statement:

“Consistent with our immigration laws, the President has the broad authority to suspend or restrict the entry of aliens into the United States if he determines it to be in the national interest to do so. Today's rule applies this important principle to aliens who violate such a suspension or restriction regarding the southern border imposed by the President by invoking an express authority provided by Congress to restrict eligibility for asylum. Our asylum system is overwhelmed with too many meritless asylum claims from aliens who place a tremendous burden on our resources, preventing us from being able to expeditiously grant asylum to those who truly deserve it. Today, we are using the authority granted to us by Congress to bar aliens who violate a Presidential suspension of entry or other restriction from asylum eligibility.”

Section 212(f) of the Immigration and INA states that “[w]henever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.”

Further, Section 215(a) of the INA states that it is “unlawful…for any alien to depart from or enter or attempt to depart from or enter the United States except under such reasonable rules, regulations, and orders, and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may prescribe.”

In Section 208(d)(5)(B) of the INA, Congress specified that the Attorney General “may provide by regulation for any other conditions or limitations on the consideration of an application for asylum.”

Today’s new rule applies to prospective presidential proclamations, and is not retroactive.

Asylum is a discretionary form of relief granted by the Executive Branch on a discretionary basis to those fleeing persecution on the basis of their race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. The rule does not render such aliens ineligible for withholding of removal under the INA or protection from removal under the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

[Cog]

Totally unrelated to the caravan and the asylum seekers but I got a laugh from it.

[Revi]

It's important to keep these people out. They might get in here and find out that the American Dream is not for them.
Let's look at when walls really worked to keep people out, or in. There was the Great Wall of China, Hadrian's wall, the Berlin Wall and a bunch of others. It's something an empire erects as it starts to fall in. When the empire is growing there is no need for walls, but as it falls apart there is a need to keep "them" out. Eventually all wars are breached.

[KaiserJeep]

Even though some flaming liberal rectums think that a wall on the S border is about racism, or being scared, or some other reason, that's just not it.

The Great Wall of China was about keeping out Mongol hordes which literally did engage in rape/pillage/burn in the Chinese provinces.

Unless you live in California, where every fifth person is undocumented, you cannot experience the problems this causes, at least not in as extreme a fashion as these problems are here.

I have now served on FIVE juries which included four murders committed by gang bangers. Three were Latinos with gang tats on face and neck, the fourth was a Vietnamese also with gang tats. Now think about that for a minute - they mark their faces so that they know by looking, which total strangers they want to murder. The Vietnamese guy had Asian logograms on his face, and I saw another prospective juror ask what they meant, and get thrown off the jury. He was the banger who beat three other bangers with an all-American Louisville Slugger bat, before using a machine pistol to make sure they stayed down. (In case you were wondering, the fifth jury was about a White guy and extreme child abuse - a 13-month old female baby with multiple broken bones.)

This is a "sanctuary" for undocumented people. That means that violent felons can post a nominal amount of cash, give a name without providing any ID, and walk away. The State, the County, and the City all provide different levels of "sanctuary", the only thing they seemingly can agree on is to get you back on the street ahead of the request from ICE or Homeland Security to detain you for trial. Then when the same guy with the same tats and the same fingerprints and the same DNA passes into the system for the third violent felony, they finally quit the "catch and release". Understand that the various Police Chiefs, Sheriffs, etc. are only briefly in charge before they commit the typical offense of detaining too many violent undocumented felons. Understand that Governor-Elect Gavin Newsome has promised an even more open door and new levels of "catch and release". Most of the LE professionals in the end get booted for NOT allowing cop killer undocumented killers to walk away. Then the various police forces have poor morale and are chronically undermanned, and it all snowballs into ever-greater problems.

I have mentioned before how the local schools are overcrowded and under-funded. The problem is the undocumented children who don't speak English, all of whom get ESL (English as a Second Language) classes for an extra hour a day. Now understand that the schools all have 20% to 30% more students than the Federal Census figures used to establish Federal school funding says are present, this is on the locals to fix, and the locals are NOT following up to see if these kids live in or out of the school district.

As bad as these problems are, the homeless are just as bad. Substance abusers mostly, but since they are way down on the priority list of offenders, they get little LE attention. They steal mail and Amazon packages in daylight, and nothing happens as a result. They mug people and the police will respond, but it's hard to find somebody with no fixed address, and even if you can, any Latino can credibly admit to undocumented status - whether it's true or not - and walk.

NOW, by all that is Holy, we have defiant people smoking weed - and almost certainly other substances - in public places. Most of these folks are non-White, protected by their undocumented status, the only people who get cited are White with clean clothes, obviously not among the homeless.

Can you even START TO UNDERSTAND what the real reasons are that we don't want more undocumented people? Because their very presence is turning a wonderful place to live into a run down, crime-ridden, unsafe area.

DON'T tell me we can enforce every law except the immigration laws, either. It simply does not work, when undocumented criminals are released the same day, because they are undocumented and it's policy. When all a Latino has to do is leave his ID at home and claim to be undocumented, to take advantage of "catch and release".

We could solve this by closing the border and keeping it closed and leak-free. THEN and only THEN, give everybody already here amnesty, and get them a SSN. I mean, the undocumented already get free Welfare, Medical services, and job training paid for by the rest of us, let them pay taxes on what they earn. Let them also be - if not US citizens - at least legal residents paying taxes for the services they consume.

I HATE the idea of it, but what is needed is to detain everybody without valid ID, for as long as it takes. Do that long enough, you can solve all these problems. I say that even though it pains my libertarian soul.

[Newfie]

Yeah, you come back to the idea of a national ID. In 2016 some liberal paper had an article on “how to do elections right.” The gist was everybody just got to walk up and vote. It was a slam at the states trying to police the voter roles.

The problem was that those countries cited, and even mentioned in the article, had national voter databases. In order o vote you had to show ID and be on the list. Then you vote with no problem. The very thing the article was opposed to.

[Tanada]

Even though some flaming liberal rectums think that a wall on the S border is about racism, or being scared, or some other reason, that's just not it.

The Great Wall of China was about keeping out Mongol hordes which literally did engage in rape/pillage/burn in the Chinese provinces.

Unless you live in California, where every fifth person is undocumented, you cannot experience the problems this causes, at least not in as extreme a fashion as these problems are here.

I have now served on FIVE juries which included four murders committed by gang bangers. Three were Latinos with gang tats on face and neck, the fourth was a Vietnamese also with gang tats. Now think about that for a minute - they mark their faces so that they know by looking, which total strangers they want to murder. The Vietnamese guy had Asian logograms on his face, and I saw another prospective juror ask what they meant, and get thrown off the jury. He was the banger who beat three other bangers with an all-American Louisville Slugger bat, before using a machine pistol to make sure they stayed down. (In case you were wondering, the fifth jury was about a White guy and extreme child abuse - a 13-month old female baby with multiple broken bones.)

This is a "sanctuary" for undocumented people. That means that violent felons can post a nominal amount of cash, give a name without providing any ID, and walk away. The State, the County, and the City all provide different levels of "sanctuary", the only thing they seemingly can agree on is to get you back on the street ahead of the request from ICE or Homeland Security to detain you for trial. Then when the same guy with the same tats and the same fingerprints and the same DNA passes into the system for the third violent felony, they finally quit the "catch and release". Understand that the various Police Chiefs, Sheriffs, etc. are only briefly in charge before they commit the typical offense of detaining too many violent undocumented felons. Understand that Governor-Elect Gavin Newsome has promised an even more open door and new levels of "catch and release". Most of the LE professionals in the end get booted for NOT allowing cop killer undocumented killers to walk away. Then the various police forces have poor morale and are chronically undermanned, and it all snowballs into ever-greater problems.

I have mentioned before how the local schools are overcrowded and under-funded. The problem is the undocumented children who don't speak English, all of whom get ESL (English as a Second Language) classes for an extra hour a day. Now understand that the schools all have 20% to 30% more students than the Federal Census figures used to establish Federal school funding says are present, this is on the locals to fix, and the locals are NOT following up to see if these kids live in or out of the school district.

As bad as these problems are, the homeless are just as bad. Substance abusers mostly, but since they are way down on the priority list of offenders, they get little LE attention. They steal mail and Amazon packages in daylight, and nothing happens as a result. They mug people and the police will respond, but it's hard to find somebody with no fixed address, and even if you can, any Latino can credibly admit to undocumented status - whether it's true or not - and walk.

NOW, by all that is Holy, we have defiant people smoking weed - and almost certainly other substances - in public places. Most of these folks are non-White, protected by their undocumented status, the only people who get cited are White with clean clothes, obviously not among the homeless.

Can you even START TO UNDERSTAND what the real reasons are that we don't want more undocumented people? Because their very presence is turning a wonderful place to live into a run down, crime-ridden, unsafe area.

DON'T tell me we can enforce every law except the immigration laws, either. It simply does not work, when undocumented criminals are released the same day, because they are undocumented and it's policy. When all a Latino has to do is leave his ID at home and claim to be undocumented, to take advantage of "catch and release".

We could solve this by closing the border and keeping it closed and leak-free. THEN and only THEN, give everybody already here amnesty, and get them a SSN. I mean, the undocumented already get free Welfare, Medical services, and job training paid for by the rest of us, let them pay taxes on what they earn. Let them also be - if not US citizens - at least legal residents paying taxes for the services they consume.

I HATE the idea of it, but what is needed is to detain everybody without valid ID, for as long as it takes. Do that long enough, you can solve all these problems. I say that even though it pains my libertarian soul.

Accepting everything in your post as gospel trth why on earth did your nieghbors elect the fools currently in charge? Also putting even more of them in office as of next January? Why should I have sympathy for California when you did it to yourselves and continue to keep doing it?