jato0072 wrote:Actually, Energy Return On Energy Invested (EROEI often shortened to EROI) is a way to measure or calculate surplus energy. I am sure you understand Adam.
Of course I understand what it is. And why it isn't used in oil and gas activity by anyone, stockholders don't benefit from higher/lower based eroei development, the CEOs, the project managers, the engineers and geologists, etc etc. The core issue is that energy returned on energy invested isn't the metric that drives this development, $ returned on $ spent is. And because identical BTUs (an energy measure) have different values in the human value schema (the value of a BTU of sunlight versus a BTU of natural gas for example) this metric is just interesting from an academic standpoint.
I understand both what it is, and why folks would like to use it, and why it is irrelevant.
jato0072 wrote:No amount of money will power machines, obtain resources, feed animals or humans.
Amusingly, this same argument was made for why peak oil wouldn't be solved by more money. And then when the first 4 peak oils of this century went down the tubes, the main reason claimed for WHY was all the money created during the QE exercise.
jato0072 wrote: So if you want to say money drives some human behaviors, I totally agree. Energy powers everything and is fundamental. Measuring EROEI can said to be irrelevant in an environment which has large quantities of surplus energy, weather it is the first half of the fossil fuel production curve or a newly discovered valley filled with vast food resources.
I'll stick with eroei being irrelevant because it just is, when it comes to how the human value system works in general.
jato0072 wrote:However, IF surplus energy we need for our current civilization is diminishing, it would be wise to utilize EROEI. Regardless of current Human behavior, EROEI would be a far better way to manage sources of energy than highly manipulated fiat debt / currencies.
It might be wise to utilize eroei for...something...but unless the world picks up Hubbert's belief in how a Technocracy economic system would work, eroei will continue to remain irrelevant. The basic reason being because the value in the form of a BTU isn't taken into account within the eroei schema.
Here is my standard thought experiment demonstrating why.
I will trade you all the sunlight BTUs in my backyard, for an equivalent amount of crude oil BTUs. You install solar panels in my backyard and a long extension cord to get it where you want it, and I'll install a tank at the end of your driveway, and trade you BTU for BTU sunlight to oil all day/week/month/year long. Makes perfect sense in an eroei world, an even-steven trade. And you won't make that trade with me in a million years.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."
Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"