Outcast_Searcher wrote:evilgenius wrote:I guess the idea is do we actually need a cudgel held over society? There's a new dog in the house. He's a relative's dog. For me, it's like being a dog grandpa. I get to spoil him. I have also said to myself that I will try not to hit this dog. I don't mean really whack it, but hit it as a means to train it. Well, yesterday, he was messing around a little too close to my plate. I have to confess, I bopped him on top of the head. I thought about it last night. I supposed I didn't do wrong, but I had best not approach every situation that way with him going forward. There is always a better way than using violence. The trouble is those ways require us to do something. Reward works, but it takes time, and precision. We usually don't get that involved, unless we care.
One idea there is for many generally well behaved pets, you don't have to hurt them at all. Just a little finger flick along with a stern voice to make it clear that's bad behavior will often do the trick, if you're consistent about it. Same deal with many well behaved children.
OTOH, there is the clueless / resistant minority re behavior, but discipline can always be escalated if that is actually needed.
It's easier to use reward with humans who can understand what's up by you telling them, than animals who don't correlate things well at all if they don't happen right away.
Or, we could get at the root causes. I mean this about telling poor people to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps.'
The idea is that no matter what you do you will be subject to criticism, should you be in charge. You might as well be criticized by those who stood against what was right.
In finance, that might involve using math to make important investment decisions. In this sort of place in society, it's more about using your heart. Because you do have to use your heart, in order to share resources that you feel might run out if you do.
To engage that way with other people is to possibly lose. You might even lose all of the time. Certain minorities in the US have had to endure a history like that.
You know, black people, for instance, have, and they continue to be one of the groups that most ardently supports the principles of the Constitution. They understand what can't happen when you are trying to talk about equality in a way that armchair social engineers, like me, simply don't.
People like me, so willing to try different things. What a thing to experiment so openly with a nation's soul. Isn't science useless without experimentation? Yeah, and they watch it happen to them. And they endure it. Talk about a group that believes! Next up, schools.
Because you have to ask yourself if we aren't asking ourselves certain questions, doing certain experiments, because we are afraid to ask those questions. Like it was evil to ask those questions. What we may be forgetting is that other binary actors will result in the same set of outcomes. Just because there are elements to a story doesn't mean, in other words, that it supports a narrative. Something else may be driving what is going on. That's why, sometimes, it takes a more cultured, or nuanced, society to arrive at a certain set of rules of thumb. That's the only way to show the proper amount of respect, while, this time, not doing what that interest wanted.