[kublikhan]

Tesla is recalling nearly all 2 million of its cars on US roads to limit the use of its Autopilot feature following a two-year probe by US safety regulators of roughly 1,000 crashes in which the feature was engaged. The limitations on Autopilot serve as a blow to Tesla’s efforts to market its vehicles to buyers willing to pay extra to have their cars do the driving for them.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said the Autopilot system can give drivers a false sense of security and be easily misused in certain dangerous situations when a Tesla’s technology may be unable to safely navigate the road. The over-the-air software update will give Tesla drivers more warnings when they are not paying attention to the road while the Autopilot’s “Autosteer” function is turned on. Those notifications will remind drivers to keep their hands on the wheel and pay attention to the road, according to a statement from NHTSA.

After the recall, Teslas with Autosteer turned on will more routinely check on the driver’s attention level – and may disengage the feature – when the software determines the driver isn’t paying attention, when the car is approaching traffic controls, or when it’s off the highway when Autosteer alone isn’t sufficient to drive the car.

Tesla’s owners manuals say: “Autosteer is intended for use only on highways and limited-access roads with a fully attentive driver.” But the company has pushed the idea that its driver assist features allow the cars to safely make most driving decisions even away from those roads.

A NHTSA investigation, however, has found numerous accidents over the past several years that suggest that these features do not live up to their names of Autopilot and Full Self Driving. The safety regulator in its letter to Tesla said “in certain circumstances when Autosteer is engaged, the prominence and scope of the feature’s controls may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse [of the feature.]”

Tesla recalls nearly all 2 million of its vehicles on US roads

Is it any wonder the feature is misused? Tesla markets it as "Autopilot', 'Full Self Driving', etc. Then buried in the owner's manual it says "for highway use only". That's a recipe for misuse and accidents. If it's highway use only, why doesn't the autopilot just disengage when you leave the highway?

[careinke]

A Tesla recall is not as big a deal as you may think. The owners probably don't have to physically take their cars anywhere. That's convenient since Tesla has no "dealerships". The "Recall" will probably be done electronically.

I think it is a prudent decision for now, but fully expect autonomous vehicles to return quickly (a year or two) as Tesla's AI increases. In the meantime sales keep increasing.

Peace

[kublikhan]

I wasn't really concerned about the time it would take to implement a software update that would add a few warning beeps for the driver. I was more concerned with the false advertising Tesla was doing with it's Autopilot feature.

December 13, 2023 - Tesla is under fire by California’s Department of Motor Vehicles over the company’s ads claiming its cars are completely self-driving, which they’re not. Elon Musk’s electric car company argues that its claims of being self-driving are protected under free speech, according to court documents.

Teslas are not fully autonomous vehicles yet, but the company allegedly advertised them as though they are. California’s DMV accused Tesla of fraud for saying its vehicles had “full self-driving capability,” among other false claims from the car company. Tesla published disclaimers saying current models “require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous” on its website. In court documents recently made public, Tesla is making the argument this court case should be thrown out altogether because its claims are protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Tesla Says It's Not Fraud, It's Free Speech

California Law: False or Deceptive Advertising is Prohibited
California has some of the strongest and most wide-reaching consumer protection laws in the entire country. Under state law (California Business and Professions Code § 17500), false and deceptive advertising is strictly prohibited. A company that violates the state’s false advertising regulations could be held both civilly and criminally liable.

What the consumer law says in California

A manufacturer or dealer shall not name any partial driving automation feature, or describe any partial driving automation feature in marketing materials, using language that implies or would otherwise lead a reasonable person to believe, that the feature allows the vehicle to function as an autonomous vehicle, as defined in Section 38750, or otherwise has functionality not actually included in the feature. A violation of this subdivision shall be considered a misleading advertisement for the purposes of Section 11713.

Cal. Veh. Code § 24011.5

[careinke]

I wasn't really concerned about the time it would take to implement a software update that would add a few warning beeps for the driver. I was more concerned with the false advertising Tesla was doing with it's Autopilot feature.

December 13, 2023 - Tesla is under fire by California’s Department of Motor Vehicles over the company’s ads claiming its cars are completely self-driving, which they’re not. Elon Musk’s electric car company argues that its claims of being self-driving are protected under free speech, according to court documents.

Teslas are not fully autonomous vehicles yet, but the company allegedly advertised them as though they are. California’s DMV accused Tesla of fraud for saying its vehicles had “full self-driving capability,” among other false claims from the car company. Tesla published disclaimers saying current models “require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous” on its website. In court documents recently made public, Tesla is making the argument this court case should be thrown out altogether because its claims are protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Tesla Says It's Not Fraud, It's Free Speech

California Law: False or Deceptive Advertising is Prohibited
California has some of the strongest and most wide-reaching consumer protection laws in the entire country. Under state law (California Business and Professions Code § 17500), false and deceptive advertising is strictly prohibited. A company that violates the state’s false advertising regulations could be held both civilly and criminally liable.

What the consumer law says in California

A manufacturer or dealer shall not name any partial driving automation feature, or describe any partial driving automation feature in marketing materials, using language that implies or would otherwise lead a reasonable person to believe, that the feature allows the vehicle to function as an autonomous vehicle, as defined in Section 38750, or otherwise has functionality not actually included in the feature. A violation of this subdivision shall be considered a misleading advertisement for the purposes of Section 11713.

Cal. Veh. Code § 24011.5

Ok lets get a little deeper into this:

1. Yes Tesla implemented an electronic recall when the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration finished it's 2 year probe. I agree with this and Tesla seemed to have responded quickly. BTW your original source was CNN which HATES Musk for obvious reasons.

2. Except for its' own web site, Tesla does not advertise. Have you EVER seen a Tesla commercial add? Yea, me neither. But they do have them on their own site, so I guess you could stretch your false advertisements claim to include the companies own site. So if that is what you really meant, you can have that win.

3. Safety of Teslas VS non Tesla Vehicles: Now the DATA I am using for Tesla was what Tesla gave to the NHTSA so you could claim it was falsified, but I see no proof. The Not Tesla vehicles are compiled by the NHTSA, part of the Federal Government. Anyway, Here are the Stats, based on accidents per million miles driven as reported to NHTSA:

A: Tesla (auto pilot) 0.16/Million miles Driven
B: Tesla (No Autopilot) 0.58/Million miles Driven
C: Average US Vehicle 1.53/Million miles Driven

Now, this is not taking into account that Tesla's AI is improving at an exponential rate, so these rates are not showing the improvements (including the installed upgrades)

4. Your sources in this post ALL come from California and NOT the federal government. Now Musk has a policy of meeting all government regulations, and if he can't, he does not do business there. This is why Tesla moved its' plant from California to Texas. I fully expect if the California suit is not settled out of court, Tesla will quit selling cars in California.

California has no jurisdiction outside of the state. This will be economically beneficial to Tesla and an Economic loss for California. I'm looking forward to it.

Peace

[careinke]

If price was not a factor, why would you buy a vehicle that is almost an order of magnitude LESS safe, or even a vehicle that is only 1/3 as safe as its' competition????

Peace

[kublikhan]

4. Your sources in this post ALL come from California and NOT the federal government. Now Musk has a policy of meeting all government regulations, and if he can't, he does not do business there. This is why Tesla moved its' plant from California to Texas. I fully expect if the California suit is not settled out of court, Tesla will quit selling cars in California.

California has no jurisdiction outside of the state. This will be economically beneficial to Tesla and an Economic loss for California. I'm looking forward to it.

California is, by far, Tesla's #1 market in the US. Tesla had more sales in California than in the next 10 states combined. Same with it's charging network. If Tesla pulled out of the California market, that is not something that would be economically beneficial to Tesla.

[theluckycountry]

U.S. Dealer EV Inventories Have Doubled, No Wonder Automakers Are Scaling Back Production

Dec 16 2023
Dealers are holding 114 days of supply of electric vehicles, up from only 53 days a year ago
It feels like only five minutes ago that we were writing about how dealers were struggling with a severe shortage of cars as automakers wrestled with the chip crisis and COVID shutdowns. Now the situation has flipped on its head and dealers are trying to deal with a glut of available vehicles and automakers are being forced to wind down production to prevent new cars piling up into a mountain of metal.

What’s the leper of the EV field? That would be the Ford Mustang Mach-E, according to Cox, which has a ginormous 284-day supply. The same company’s Lightning has a 111-day supply, Nissan is struggling to find homes for 183 days’ worth of Leafs (Leaves?) and even the cool Kia EV6 has 145 days of supply, Bloomberg reports. But not every automaker has a ton of unsold EVs. Both the Chevy Bolt and Toyota bZ4X have supplies lower than the EV average...

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/12/u-s-d ... roduction/

Currently, less than 1% of the 250 million vehicles on the road in the U.S. are electric vehicles
https://paw.princeton.edu/article/qa-yi ... ate-change

Less than 1% And we're already at Peak EV. Dear O dear, I though they would have made a bigger dent than that? I guess there are just not that many people in America who can afford one, I'm sure if I did a search I'd find greater percentages running around in Norway or even Germany but the searches are full of crap data on "Sales" percentages and it takes forever to find the truth about how many are actually on the road. The big search engines are obviously pushing the agenda of the "Great transition"

Still the proof is there now, out of the box. Time to move on the the Water Engine I guess, even Elon muck is pushing the idea, but unlike Toyota's internal combustion variant, his incorporates a fuel-cell to drive electric motors. Stupid in my opinion, since the fuel cells are a lot more problematic than a basic combustion engine but then when has musk ever bothered about practicality? With him it's all Star Trek and the fanboys Que up to buy the "Made In America" garbage.

Elon Musk's Water Engine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJJDSBouPe0

Bonus Vid
Inside Elon Musk's 70 Million Massive Private Jet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrb39l_B-Ig

[Pops]

A year ago makers were having severe chip shortage problems... so having more inventory is a good thing.

In fact, the company your story quotes as saying the end is here, Cox Auto, says this ...

#4: Sales of Electric Vehicles in the U.S. Will Surpass 1 Million Units for the First Time.
The battery-electric vehicle market continues to outpace the overall market in sales, and a new milestone is on the horizon: 1 million EVs sold in the U.S. in 2023. With expanded product availability coming and a fresh round of government-backed incentives to motivate buyers, the Cox Automotive team is forecasting continued good news in the electrified vehicle market.

I guess it just shows you can always get what you want from google.

[kublikhan]

Less than 1% And we're already at Peak EV. Dear O dear, I though they would have made a bigger dent than that? I guess there are just not that many people in America who can afford one, I'm sure if I did a search I'd find greater percentages running around in Norway or even Germany but the searches are full of crap data on "Sales" percentages and it takes forever to find the truth about how many are actually on the road. The big search engines are obviously pushing the agenda of the "Great transition"

Fleet turnover takes a long time. This is not just a problem for a transition from ICE to EV, this is also a problem for transitioning from old, poor fuel economy ICE vehicles to new, high MPG ICE vehicles. People tend to underestimate just how long it takes to turnover a large stock variable like all the cars on the road today, which is a huge number built up over many years. Pointing out that the vehicle fleet is only 1% EV is not a failure of EVs to sell, it is an indication of just how large the stock of cars on the road is today and the long road we have ahead of us to turnover the fleet. Some programs like "cash for clunkers" can help speedup the turnover rate. But this only works if the public is buying the new target the government is trying to push: high mpg ICE cars, EVs, hybrids, etc. Since sales of EVs are still only a fraction of new car sales, I think it would be too early to start pushing programs like "cash for clunkers". Better to first improve EVs, lower their price point, and get them to the point where they are not sitting on the lots for so long and the general car buying public is more enthusiastic about buying them.

Fleet turnover takes much longer than people expect
The composition of the stock of vehicles driving on our roads today reflects the accumulation of new vehicle sales less vehicle retirements over time. People tend to have a poor intuitive understanding of such processes that involve stocks, flows, and accumulation, and therefore the impact that introducing relatively less-efficient vehicles into the fleet, which will remain in use for many years, will have on fleet fuel consumption and GHG emissions into the future. Surveys we have undertaken on both the general public and highly-educated MIT graduate students indicate that people systematically underestimate how long it takes for new vehicles to move through the fleet, and underestimate how long new vehicles last on average (figure 1), which has increased over time with improving new vehicle quality. These misperceptions are likely to lead people to underweight the effect that the vehicles we purchase today will have into the future, and be overly optimistic about how quickly new technologies can diffuse into the on-road vehicle fleet.

We consider how the stock of vehicles on the road evolves following the introduction of a new technology (e.g. electric vehicles) that we assume is so attractive that it immediately achieves 100% of new vehicle sales. This scenario is deliberately extreme, ignoring factors such as current low consumer acceptance of alternative vehicles and the lack of charging infrastructure that could slow adoption. The scenario establishes a lower-bound on the time it takes for the fleet to turn over, assuming that all vehicles remain in the fleet for the term of their useful life. Simulating the evolution of the fleet, we find that it takes 19.6 years for the new technology to account for 90% of the on-road fleet (figure 2), even though the average vehicle lifetime is only 16.6 years (figure 1), because some vehicles remain in use much longer than average, light trucks in particular.

The road ahead
The future of mobility is both exciting and uncertain, with emerging technologies such as electric and selfdriving vehicles having the potential to make driving fundamentally safer, cheaper, and cleaner. Yet enormous inertia exists in the fleet of more than 250 M vehicles on our roads today, limiting the rate at which the fleet may be transformed to the natural rate of fleet turnover, all else being equal. Even if a future technology is so attractive that drivers sell their gasoline vehicles, the used vehicle market will push back, with used vehicle prices falling until those gasoline vehicles are sufficiently inexpensive that they will be purchased and returned to use.

Vehicle fleet turnover and the future of fuel economy

Even if EV market share jumped dramatically, it would take decades to replace the existing vehicle fleet.

The impacts of policies designed to accelerate EV adoption are inherently constrained by the slowturnover of the vehicle fleet. The average light-duty vehicle (LDV) in the United States has a useful life of about 17 years, and many remain in use for 30 years or more (especially more-polluting light trucks). Even if policies such as CAFE succeed in improving the fuel economy of new gasoline vehicles, and sales of zero-tailpipe emissions vehicles grow, decades will be required to replace the existing vehicle fleet.

Accelerating Vehicle Fleet Turnover to Achieve Sustainable Mobility Goals

Sales of EVs are growing. However, as a recent New York Times article points out, it could take years, if not decades, before electrification leads to substantial reductions in emissions.

The problem, ironically, is that automotive technology has become so good. As every long-time auto owner knows, gas-powered cars and trucks have become quite reliable, and this means that fleet turnover is slow. According to economic forecasting firm IHS Markit, the average light-duty vehicle operating in the US today is 12 years old, up from an average age of 9.6 years in 2002. “Engineering quality has gotten significantly better over time, in part because of competition from foreign automakers like Toyota.” Americans buy around 17 million gas-burners every year, and each of those cars and light trucks may be plying US roads for as long as 20 years, after which it’s likely to be shipped off for a second (and dirtier) life in a developing country.

According to IHS Markit’s projections, if EV sales ramp up to 60 percent over the next 30 years, only about 40 percent of cars on the road will be electric in 2050. “There’s an enormous amount of inertia in the system to overcome,” said Abdullah Alarfaj, a graduate student at Carnegie Mellon University who led a recent study that explored ways to speed up the rate of turnover.

Slow fleet turnover means ICE vehicles could be on the roads for decades

[theluckycountry]

The problem, ironically, is that automotive technology has become so good. As every long-time auto owner knows, gas-powered cars and trucks have become quite reliable, and this means that fleet turnover is slow.

Yes. I believe that is the main factor behind the slowdown in sales. EVs have been on the roads long enough for everyone to know their measure and unlike coal to oil, the measure is not in their favor yet. Do 99% of people not give a shit about the environment and pollution, (I speak of the media sales pitch here), care only for their own pleasure and convenience? I'd say that's probably about right. It's a very selfish world we have created in the West, all about rights and entitlements and the media screams at us that we deserve the best of everything. So sure, virtue signal on twitter, but suffer in my own life! No way.

I just came back from a bike ride up in he hills and when I checked the tank on startup, the "nearing empty" light was blinking. I grabbed a 10L can I keep handy and threw it in, then took off. That's convenience, that's what I wouldn't want to give up. I remember years ago, unless I dreamt it, that they were talking about EV's having generic batteries that you could swap out. That might have made a big difference.

I didn't dream it
Denmark, 2011 https://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/auto ... eries.html
https://phys.org/news/2012-05-ev-batter ... hauls.html
Another case of "To cheap to meter" I'm afraid.

[theluckycountry]

In fact, the company your story quotes as saying the end is here, Cox Auto, says this ...

#4: Sales of Electric Vehicles in the U.S. Will Surpass 1 Million Units for the First Time.

And that prediction was born out. Which proves two things. That the wealthy 1% still have money, and when they sense a bargain, that money comes out to play.

December 4, 2023 -- U.S. Passenger vehicle sales declined 2.4% year-on-year (y/y) https://economics.td.com/us-vehicle-sales
So more EV's are being sold than before but less cars overall.

I wasn't surprised by the uptick in sales, given that in an Year of rampant inflation EV's have seen their prices cut 34%

Electric Vehicles (EV) prices plummeted 34% in the first 11 months of 2023, suffering a 3.6% drop in November alone - highlighting the contrasting fortunes of petrol-fuelled cars, according to new figures from Indicata.

https://www.am-online.com/news/used-car ... car-prices

Imagine if Houses had dropped by 34%, I'd buy another myself! Hell I could see EV sales in 2024 being 1.5 Million All they have to do is drop them another 30%

Rich people, Huge discounts. The media is full of spin on why prices have fallen, even citing a 10% fall in battery prices. But the global price of lithium has collapsed and faltering sales in the first quarter of 2023 no doubt spurred the manufacturers to drop prices. A chicken and an egg thing really. Here is an oilprice.com story on the matter, from back in March soon after it all began.

The Real Reason Why Automakers Slashed EV Prices https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gene ... rices.html

[theluckycountry]

Electric-Vehicle Stocks Have Gotten Slammed. What Investors Should Do Now.

Updated Dec 15, 2023

There’s no question the EV bubble has burst. The combined peak market capitalization, reached in 2020 and 2021, of Nikola, Fisker, Rivian Automotive, Lucid, NIO, XPeng, Polestar Automotive, Canoo, and Lordstown Motors was as high as $470 billion. Today, the nine companies’ market caps add up to just $68 billion—a drop of 86%

So far, only three EV makers are consistently profitable: Tesla, BYD, and Li Auto. But even those stocks have taken it on the chin. Their peak market capitalizations totaled some $1.4 trillion. Today, that sum is down to about $910 billion. Tesla’s market value has gone from about $1.2 trillion to about $790 billion.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/ev-tesla-b8a27106

[careinke]

Tesla stock is a great buy right now.

Peace

[theluckycountry]

Tesla stock is a great buy right now.

Peace

Remember the Double Top indicator I spoke of in the other thread? And the triple waterfall decline? You can see both in action with this dotcom stock below. They didn't stop selling computers or software in the early 2000's, in fact they sold a hell of a lot more. But the stocks went down the toilet and companies made very little profit.

The stock market was clearly a racket back then, now it's a vile thing. I wouldn't touch it with a toilet brush. How much retirement savings were stolen at the top of that EV bubble? That's what drives the prices up, institutional investors for pensions and the like buying into the top, probably for a payoff.

Canadian pension plans posted 'hard-hitting' losses in 2022: RBC

A survey released Tuesday found that the annual median return for pension assets within the RBC I&TS universe in 2022 was -10.3 per cent – the lowest since the 2008 recession, when the annual median return was -15.9 per cent.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canadian-pe ... -1.1877984

Every decade there is a new racket, a new bubble. The 2020's one is forming as we type, it won't be obvious though until near the end though.

[ralfy]

Also, the purpose of making automative tech "so good" is to increase production and sales of goods and services, in turn needed to maximize profits which are churned back into the system, for even more increases in production and sales of goods and services.

[Newfie]

Tesla stock is a great buy right now.

Peace

I think that depends a lot upon Musk personally. And he is too mercurial for my investment taste.

[theluckycountry]

This is why it's unwise to believe anything touted these days concerning "Great new technologies" until we have seen them performing in the market on a consistent basis.

Mr. Milton told investors that Nikola had working prototypes of emission-free long-haul trucks, had billions of dollars’ worth of binding orders and was producing low-cost hydrogen fuel. All those statements were false, said prosecutors, who had asked Judge Ramos to hand down an 11-year prison term and a $5 million fine. Lawyers for Mr. Milton, who denied the charges, had sought probation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/18/busi ... ikola.html

Nikola’s staged truck video reveals how EVERYTHING is faked today, yet marketed with dramatic videos and music to trick the masses https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-09-16- ... -fake.html

[Plantagenet]

Nikola’s staged truck video reveals how EVERYTHING is faked today, yet marketed with dramatic videos and music to trick the masses https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-09-16- ... -fake.html

Even Tesla isn't much better.

It turned out Tesla's mileage and range claims were faked.....the actual battery range that Teslas are getting on the road is about 1/3 to as much as 1/2 less than Tesla has claimed.

esla-doj-ev-range-exaggerate-investigation



Cheers!

[ralfy]

In addition, the purpose of using advanced tech is to monetize, which means increased demand for energy and material resources, in turn increasing the effects of diminishing returns and environmental damage.

[theluckycountry]

Even Tesla isn't much better.

It turned out Tesla's mileage and range claims were faked.....the actual battery range that Teslas are getting on the road is about 1/3 to as much as 1/2 less than Tesla has claimed.

And then they mod the software so they don't recharge fully, because that... degrades the longevity of the battery. And don't turn the heater on, never turn the heater on! Fanboys disregard all these failings though, they claim that because we're in the infantsy of the EV all problems will be woked out (not a miss-spell) But they will never be resolved to the satisfaction of most because as oil gets more and more scarce we will see greater and greater innovation in the Gas powered cars too.


Are Electric Vehicles the Wave of the Future?
https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... uture.html

In recent months it has become abundantly clear that electric vehicles are no more than rich men’s toys. Sometimes I think I must be having a dream, but I do not seem to be able to awaken from this nightmare. These vehicles are so expensive that only the very rich can afford them. In fact, these are often secondary vehicles.

As a vehicle to drive from home to office and back home again, they are reasonably practical. However, nothing beats a vehicle with an internal combustion engine. You do not have to plug it in; just get in and drive it. Five minutes is enough time to fill the gas tank and check the water and oil. With an electric vehicle, you may have to spend two hours every 200 miles charging the battery.

Electric vehicles were tried in the early part of the twentieth century but were abandoned after gasoline-driven cars became available. If you live in North Idaho, where we live, it gets to over 100 in summer and minus 20 in winter. Thus air-conditioning must be used in summer and a heater in winter. This reduces trip miles drastically.

These vehicles are really impractical in winter. One family got caught in a blizzard. After a couple of hours, the battery was dead, and they would have been dead also if someone had not rescued them. A gasoline-driven engine could last several days and keep the heater going, if they were careful not to run it all the time. Electric vehicles are just not practical in winter or summer.

Another problem with electric vehicles is that they are a disaster whenever there is a regional power outage, from a storm to a fire to a flood. To get away from a hurricane, they are often helpless. Whenever the electrical grid goes down, as in a natural disaster, the electric vehicle is simply useless, like a large rock beside the road.