[theluckycountry]

This is a small excerpt of the work.

Chapter 1 - Demise of a superpower

Egypt’s forgotten writing
It was the summer of 1799. French engineers
were constructing military earthworks near the
Egyptian coastal town of Rosetta. They belonged to
Napoleon’s expedition that had arrived in the
country a year before. Digging in the sand, one of
the soldiers struck something with his shovel. He
tried to work round and underneath it, but this was
no ordinary piece of rubble. He could not prise it
loose. The others came to his assistance, helping
him to clear away the sand from the massive
object. There was no excitement, just weary
annoyance at the unwelcome obstruction that only
made their labours more difficult in the unfamiliar
heat.

It turned out to be a slab of black basalt, about
the size of a table-top but more than 25 centimetres
thick. Several men were needed to lift the stone and
manhandle it out of the pit. An officer’s attention
was drawn to the slight commotion. He came over
to investigate and saw that the slab was covered in
writing. Realising its significance, he ensured that
it was removed intact to a safe place, then alerted
his superiors. With little delay, the stone was taken
to Cairo. Two specialists were sent over from Paris
to make rubbings, which were then returned to
France. The stone itself passed through a
succession of hands and eventually arrived in the
British Museum. There it remains, still in good
condition.

The exciting thing about the Rosetta stone was
that it contained three separate inscriptions. The
first was in Egyptian hieroglyphs. These were still
a mystery when the stone was discovered, despite
many attempts that had been made to decipher
them over the years. The second was in the equally
mysterious demotic script, a highly stylised form of
hieroglyphs suitable for ordinary handwriting.
Crucially, however, the third inscription was in
Greek; and Greek could be easily read and
translated. Since all three inscriptions undoubtedly
bore the same message, there opened up the
possibility of deciphering the hieroglyphic and
demotic texts. Within twenty years, Jean-François
Champollion had produced the outlines of an
Egyptian grammar. Others soon completed his
work.

The story of hieroglyphic decipherment, which
the Rosetta stone made possible, is one of immense
scholarship and ingenuity. However, there is
something else remarkable as well. This is that
Egyptian civilisation could have degenerated to the
point where it could no longer read its own writing.
At the time that the Rosetta stone was produced, in
196 BC, Champollion’s distant ancestors were mere
tribal people.1 They lived directly off the land and
fought frequently among themselves. The Egyptian
state, on the other hand, was a mighty and
venerable empire, among the most opulent and
sophisticated in the world. Its fame spread far.
Somehow, these terrific advantages of Egypt
seemed to have disappeared. The former tribal
peoples now had the superior military organisation
and equipment. They could enter the country with
impunity and take it effectively unresisted.
Napoleon’s forces were not barbarians but the
representatives of their own sophisticated
civilisation. They set about surveying and
interpreting the ruins that they found. By contrast,
the society of the ancient Egyptians had sunk as far
as could be imagined. Their former glories were
resoundingly over and done with. Their precious
documents and their magnificent buildings were all
broken and buried in the sand, to be dug up by the
French army and used as ballast. Their writing was
long forgotten and with it their history and their
culture. It had to await a painstaking decipherment
by the descendants of backward tribal cultivators
before it could be read again.

Pharaonic Egypt had been in decline before
France was even born. The Rosetta stone was
produced and erected in an Egypt that was already
dominated by foreigners. The ruling Ptolemaic
dynasty were Hellenes who had come to power
after Alexander the Great conquered Egypt in 332
BC. It was on their account that one of the Rosetta
inscriptions was in Greek in the first place; the
hieroglyphs were already out of fashion. The
Ptolemies had also been responsible for getting
demotic texts transliterated into the Greek alphabet,
which at least meant that the sounds and structure
of the ancient Egyptian language were known to
nineteenth century linguists.

Today pharaonic Egypt conjures up images of
empty tombs, silent statues and museum cases full
of chipped and dusty objects. It may seem only
natural that it should be no more. Yet for three
thousand years this civilisation was a living and
enduring reality. Today its demise is familiar and
unexceptional. Yet people living in the heyday of
the pharaohs would have found it inconceivable
that they could end up as a rather backward society,
living in a land of ruins. They had acquired a
phenomenal head start in the methods and benefits
of civilised living. It must have seemed inevitable
that their highly developed nation would forever
overshadow the obscure peoples of north-western
Europe. The fact that there was a massive
turnaround demands some attention.

[EnergyUnlimited]

He researched city state civilizations back to the dawn of time and one finding, aside from an average 400 year lifecycle, was that they eventually entered a decline, 100 years or so, then a rapid collapse taking about 10 years.

I believe it was the case with Mayans.
Romans however were declining slower and longer.
One can argue that the final great and successful Cesar was Mark Aurelius and imperial decline have started with arrival of his son Commodus, this idiot known from movie "Gladiator".
Then was a series of falls and incomplete recoveries going on for 300 years before final humiliating series of surrenders to Goths at 460-80.
Remnants were still existing for about 100 years longer before finally dissipating.

One salient aspect of the collapse was that the people of the empire just gave up on the lifestyle, lost interest in the empire, ceased to work.

IMO it will be the case with West.
Plumbers and electricians will no longer come to work, then there will be few days of looting in darkness and that is how it will all end.
Sure, they will call police and army to help but these people will rather join looters as well.

The decline encompasses many aspects, social, financial, spiritual even. Today most people in the western world decry religion, they want nothing to do with it, but strong belief and adherence to the principals of a deity was always a hallmark of a strong civilization. England was very ardently protestant when it came into it's powerful stage, the USA too, very religious. Whether individual people believed in the doctrines or not is irrelevant, it was a unifying force in the empires, it helped hold them together.

Nearly always the case but there is a notable exception - China.
They replaced regular religions with Confucianism where all the faith is placed in government.
Sure, there are Gods and heaven out there but they are not relevant, you don't need to pray to them, they won't harm or help you but you should rather try to mimic their perfectly harmonious life here on Earth - of course with an aid and guidance of government who has famous heavenly mandate to rule.
Chinese Buddhism is known too but it is rather cultural implant from India adapted by Chinese over many centuries and practiced by say 15% of population.
There is Taoism as well where deities are of secondary relevance but more important are forces which you should somehow accept and allow them to flow smoothly through your body (Chi, Jin, Jang).
There are plenty of Gods out there but no one to whom you could pray nor worship him.
They won't listen, won't reward you and won't punish you.
You are earning points for your future fate, gods won't help or harm and you will find out in your next incarnation how well you were doing.
Religious practice is more like sorcery - and I know what I am talking about because my wife is Chinese and we are over 30 years together.
Amazingly whatever my wife is doing (and considerable number of superstitious rituals is practiced) it appear to work so well that sometimes I will join in.
Mind you - she is well educated and from their upper middle class (MSc in Chemistry, graduated in the UK).
But one way or another these are not believes useful in nation/empire building - with the exception of Confucian trust in government which is not a religion really.
Chinese beliefs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_China

So today it's in the garbage bin, but so is honest business practices, the appropriate punishment of criminals, the family unit, the national money systems. They have all gone down together and the process has been underway for many many decades. I cold see Widdowson's collapse occurring at any time. They don't ring a bell, it just happens.

Today nearly everything of value is in a garbage bin and if something is not there then it is already in landfill site.

Hmmm. The collapse of the USSR didn't result in the collapse of Russia, but if you were our age or older living through it wasn't a pleasant experience. I'm over 60 and starting from scratch isn't a scenario I would relish. I think it pays to have a plan B and plan C in these times.

I sailed through commie collapse in Poland and actually made nice money out of it (by doing things which were formally forbidden like western currency trading out of official system - but everyone clever was doing them anyway).
Piece of cake.
However IMO plans B-s and C-s are usually just illusions making us feeling to be in control, even if we have none.
Sure - I have such plans too but I try to be realistic about how much they are really worth.
We have in Poland one phrase:
If God knows your plans he is dying out of laughter.

[Newfie]

Here is a list of the wods largest cities. 81 are listed.

How about each of the correspondents on this thread pick out the 3 BEST, the ones they would like to live in.

If you can not find any you would like to live in then just pick the 3 LEAST BAD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities

[theluckycountry]

Of course I would never live in a city again, especially not a mega city due to the pollution, noise, vulnerabilities etc etc, but in the spirit of your post Newfie

All else being equal (which it isn't)
Singapore
Tokyo
Osaka

These because social cohesion is strong, you don't have to consider security all that much, you are free to walk or cycle the streets at night, which is fun.

[theluckycountry]

This is how McDonalds markets in Japan



And in the US

[noobtube]

I wanted to quote a number of your comments, but decided to settle on two.

He gave away:
1. his money to Jews,
2. his power and authority to feminists,
3. his cities to Mexicans and Muslims
4. his ass to gays.
That is what he has done and now there are consequences to face.

This was so good, I had to share it.

Plumbers and electricians will no longer come to work, then there will be few days of looting in darkness and that is how it will all end.
Sure, they will call police and army to help but these people will rather join looters as well.

Just had another blackout in my city. It was spread over 4 days. While I had a generator, most of my neighbors just sat in the dark the whole time. They lost all their food, had no lights, and no electronics.

Once it was all over, I told my nearest neighbors to just let me know if they needed anything. While some were grateful, others were content to just sit in the darkness. But, I wonder how LONG would they tolerate it before reaching a breaking point.

There was a good book put out around 2000 called "The Phoenix Principle
and the coming dark age" by Marc Widdowson. Quite a lengthy tome but I managed to wade through most of it. He researched city state civilizations back to the dawn of time and one finding, aside from an average 400 year lifecycle, was that they eventually entered a decline, 100 years or so, then a rapid collapse taking about 10 years. One salient aspect of the collapse was that the people of the empire just gave up on the lifestyle, lost interest in the empire, ceased to work.

BIG THANKS for the free PDF!

Would you two anti-semitic loons please start your own thread and post your anti-semitic nonsense there rather then de-railing unrelated threads with this drivel?

Thank you.

This is who runs United States Foreign Policy... the Israeli lobby.

U. S. Secretary of State - Anthony Blinken (Jew) <-- Promoting open borders

U. S. Deputy Secretary of State - Victoria Nuland (Jew) <-- Face of Ukraine disaster

U. S. Secretary of the Treasury Janet Yellen (Jew) <-- Face of Jewish banking in America


Yeah, Jews do not control America.

US extends temporary protection to nearly 500,000 Venezuelan migrants
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/20/nyregion/biden-adams-migrants.html

And, guess where these immigrants are heading. Just a hint... It's not the rural areas.

[theluckycountry]

They are all corrupt, to the last man and woman. This has been the case since the beginning basically but the general population population refuses to accept it and refuses to insist on a cleanup. It's a simple matter to clean it all up, the majority just need to look around their own towns and cities and find honest people and elect them to office. Rank and file people, not people from the political swamp. That is why the government and it's media creates all this division, red and blue, abortion no abortion, immigration no immigration. It prevents the people unifying.

I'm sure the people of the ukraine though they were getting the genuine article when they elected the drug addled comedian, but he was just a stooge of a political party. Like Ronald Reagan was just a stooge, a second rate actor with a home town demeanor. An ACTOR ffs. There is your first clue. He was bought and paid for by the Banks and the military complex. It's why the cities are doomed and always have been, it's why rural living is the only practical solution to the problem of corruption. Out where I am people band together.

[Newfie]

Of course I would never live in a city again, especially not a mega city due to the pollution, noise, vulnerabilities etc etc, but in the spirit of your post Newfie

All else being equal (which it isn't)
Singapore
Tokyo
Osaka

These because social cohesion is strong, you don't have to consider security all that much, you are free to walk or cycle the streets at night, which is fun.

Except they won't let people like you, or me, in, which is what makes them good?

Not that you don't have a point of sorts, cultures with fewer cultures have different kinds of problems.

Does that indicate that all cosmopolitan cities are doomed? That our future is to retreat to mono cultural enclaves? It may be observed Xi seems to be pushing in this direction.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Re. - best city to live.

I live in countryside for last 20 years so when now I go to a city I must pay attention not to fall under a car or so.
However out of those on offer from Newfie's list I would choose:
1. Singapore
2. Shanghai
3. Beijing

However as long as those SAUDIS have completed pending projects I would choose:
1. The Line
2. Trojena
3. Oxagon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9jFYLs19nU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j9DcxJzUms

Except they won't let people like you, or me, in, which is what makes them good?

One of my friends who was studying chemistry with me in Warsaw now lives in Japan.
He is there for last 25 years, has Japanese wife and recently got citizenship.
So it is not as impossible as it might sound

Does that indicate that all cosmopolitan cities are doomed?

No, not at all.
However those cosmopolitan cities which are mixing cultures with average IQ 60 and IQ 100 are doomed.
Someone here was already writing about a city pass.
There should be some sort of set of exams/tests required to pass before you are allowed to settle in modern city.
Also certain behaviors (like drug abuse, repetitive thievery or joining criminal gangs) should result in withholding city pass and bannition (expulsion) from city, first time perhaps for a specific period of time, second time for life.
Expulsion from one city should also mean automatic refusal of admission to another one.
It was practiced in medieval times and was a very effective punishment.
It is also in certain forms practiced in China now - you need a permit (based on your merits) to settle in certain cities there.
Here is an example how it works.

That our future is to retreat to mono cultural enclaves? It may be observed Xi seems to be pushing in this direction.

Chinese are now openly seeking talent based immigration.
Communist party is now openly encouraging it.
You will have a problem to get woman there as it is hated when local women go to foreigners, particularly if you are aiming at one better looking and from their middle class.
Nothing strange though - women are in short supply there.
In Japan it is now far more acceptable.
When I married Malaysian Chinese woman from their upper middle class her family hated it wholeheartedly but their daughter rebelled and refused to come back home so they could do nothing.
It was only few years later when her parents have accepted what happened.
Chinese from China are even more awkward with it than those who migrated to Malaysia.
Perception of world there is as follows:
1. Here is China and it is great.
2. Outside are living barbarians.

[theluckycountry]

All else being equal (which it isn't)
Singapore
Tokyo
Osaka

Except they won't let people like you, or me, in, which is what makes them good?

Japan is not a problem if you speak English, lots of otherwise inexperienced westerners, people like my salesman mate, go there and teach the lower grades. He didn't speak Jap but that didn't matter. Still for the ten years he lived there he was poor, they don't pay much. He was 20 years younger than me but he's dead now. He liked his vodka and one night he drank a bottle in combo with some meds (against doctors advice of course) That was one time meds didn't kill a person all by themselves.

In reality both my picks are in future War zones probably so I wouldn't shift even if they paid me a million to do so. A Billion? Well of course Hahaha. Same with Singapore, you need a lot of money to be content there. Here in Oz you don't need much at all, even people on disability support pensions can rent a home and drive a car, eat takeaway and buy computer games. Which is all many of them do. I know a blind guy, he gets $1500/fortnight which is 50% more than the average DSP recipient. There are about a million people here on DSP, many of them faking it, it's a real gravy train if you don't want much out of life aside from a few simple pleasures.

[theluckycountry]

Re. - best city to live.
1. Singapore
2. Shanghai
3. Beijing


1. Here is China and it is great.
2. Outside are living barbarians.

That's the problem with China, if you're not Chinese you're a barbarian. Oh they are very friendly with tourists and business people but only because you are constantly giving them money, which is all they really care about, making money, investing money, counting money. They have a nasty history too where they go on the rampage every 50 or 60 years. (they missed a cycle when the Japanese had them under the thumb). I wouldn't want to make a home there at this point in history.

[careinke]

Here is a list of the wods largest cities. 81 are listed.

How about each of the correspondents on this thread pick out the 3 BEST, the ones they would like to live in.

If you can not find any you would like to live in then just pick the 3 LEAST BAD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities

Not that I will ever live in a city again.

Dallas, Houston and Washington.

Peace

[Tanada]

Here is a list of the worlds largest cities. 81 are listed.

How about each of the correspondents on this thread pick out the 3 BEST, the ones they would like to live in.

If you can not find any you would like to live in then just pick the 3 LEAST BAD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities

I don't wish to live in any city but if forced...Santiago, Bogota, Lima. I would have to learn Spanish but if I am sacrificing my happiness to live in a city I need to speak the local language fluently.

[noobtube]

Does anyone here actually live in a big city region?

From personal experience, it takes a lot of years to really get the hang of living here and enjoying the benefits, without being rich, spending a lot, or getting government handouts (e.g. immigrants).

You also have to remember the cities thrive on young people. Once you hit 50, most people age-out of the city. Unless you took special care of yourself, adapted, or have useful skills, the city can be overwhelming for the old (including myself).

American cities have never looked this good. They are gleaming, shiny, and filled with luxury. Back in the 90s, there was this push to make American cities safe for the suburban housewife. Well, they accomplished that because I see half-naked women, jogging by themselves, in the evening, for all to see. To do that, in a city, without any fear of assault says something about so-called crime in the American city.

[theluckycountry]

Are you talking cities, or the White suburbs around some of them noobtube

[EnergyUnlimited]

Does anyone here actually live in a big city region?

No.
In long gone past - yes - and I enjoyed it.
From birth to 25 y.o. I was living in cities in Poland and then UK and it was great.
From 25 to 35 I was living in small town surrounded by beautiful countryside in the UK - because chemical company where I was working was located there.
At the age of 35 I moved back to Poland and live in quite secluded countryside village at the seaside and run tourist business with my wife. My customers are in 90%+ cases from cities (Polish, German, Swedish).

From personal experience, it takes a lot of years to really get the hang of living here and enjoying the benefits, without being rich, spending a lot, or getting government handouts (e.g. immigrants).

Never claimed any single penny from government on grounds that "I am poor and cannot cope, please help me".
Required information to be disclosed in claim forms is so humiliating that I would rather shoot myself than fill one.
Seriously.

You also have to remember the cities thrive on young people. Once you hit 50, most people age-out of the city. Unless you took special care of yourself, adapted, or have useful skills, the city can be overwhelming for the old (including myself).

This is bringing very important question:

Can we afford it to keep cities going?

Demographic transition is completed.
Society is getting old and this problem is only going to be worse in coming decades. Kids are endangered species these days.
Who will want to live there?
Who will pay taxes to maintain city infrastructure?
IMO without radical demographic change - in direction of MUCH more kids - cities are not viable in medium term of 1-3 decades.

I see half-naked women, jogging by themselves, in the evening, for all to see. To do that, in a city, without any fear of assault says something about so-called crime in the American city.

I have seen sufficient numbers of half- and full- naked women that they no longer seem exciting.
Problem with overwhelming majority of women these days is that all what they can offer to you is to be naked.
But there is no brain, no substance, no ethics - just empty dolls.
Shallow, mindless consumers who will go to bed with anyone who tip them and then cry #me too!
Sure - there are odd exceptions but that doesn't change overall picture.
Degradation of women is IMO one of most important factors of decay of West.

You see, men which I have mentioned in humorous way few posts ago are of no use. Better dead than alive.
But if remaining several % cannot find a worthy woman, then it really is a game over.

[noobtube]

Are you talking cities, or the White suburbs around some of them noobtube

I am talking about the downtowns/central business districts/high-density/high-rent areas.

Despite what American media screams about on a daily basis, the cities have never looked so good.

Manhattan, Miami, Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, Seattle, including Los Angeles and San Francisco, and many more.

Cities in the United States used to be dirty, grimy, dangerous, and drab-looking... but they had a soul, vibrancy, and excitement to them.

Today, American cities are an extension of suburban conformity. They are all safe, bland, shiny, and a lot cleaner. Before, only young men, with a sense of adventure, would dare venture into the heart of the city, alone. Now, suburban housewives come to the city, by themselves, and feel at ease. Times have changed.

[noobtube]

Never claimed any single penny from government on grounds that "I am poor and cannot cope, please help me".
Required information to be disclosed in claim forms is so humiliating that I would rather shoot myself than fill one.
Seriously.

I was tempted to get government health care about 10 years ago. After seeing the form, I said to myself, you have to be completely destitute or desperate to submit yourself to this.

Once you take those handouts, the government owns you.

This is bringing very important question:

Can we afford it to keep cities going?

Demographic transition is completed.
Society is getting old and this problem is only going to be worse in coming decades. Kids are endangered species these days.
Who will want to live there?
Who will pay taxes to maintain city infrastructure?
IMO without radical demographic change - in direction of MUCH more kids - cities are not viable in medium term of 1-3 decades.

For the United States, I think the plan is to use immigrants and their children to face these problems.

In my city, they have removed a lot of the senior housing and converted it to apartments for young people. They did the same with the slums. And, many nursing homes have been shut down near the city center. In fact, I see a lot of construction of apartment blocks in entirely abandoned areas for the rich. And, of course, people need a place to eat, so there has been an influx of supermarkets and restaurants.

The soup kitchens, homeless shelters, and jails have been removed far from the city center. This is just one American city, but it seems to be happening all across the country.

And, there are Indians and Arabs all over the place! You'd almost think you were in a foreign country.

The city has a plan, and it is to get rid of the old, sick, and poor, and bring in the immigrants.

I have seen sufficient numbers of half- and full- naked women that they no longer seem exciting.
Problem with overwhelming majority of women these days is that all what they can offer to you is to be naked.
But there is no brain, no substance, no ethics - just empty dolls.
Shallow, mindless consumers who will go to bed with anyone who tip them and then cry #me too!
Sure - there are odd exceptions but that doesn't change overall picture.
Degradation of women is IMO one of most important factors of decay of West.

You see, men which I have mentioned in humorous way few posts ago are of no use. Better dead than alive.
But if remaining several % cannot find a worthy woman, then it really is a game over.

Empty dolls? That sounds about right.

In the United States, feminism, homosexuality/transvestite, immigration was really pushed in the late 1960s. At the time, families and labor were at their strongest, and the country was a production powerhouse.

Now, every woman is a victim, is entitled to the good life for breathing, and has no obligation to submit herself because it is male oppression. Labor is weak, industry is gone, and families are a wreck.

I read a report that millions of men in the United States have basically checked out of society.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/men-workfo ... facturing/

That is armies of men who have essentially given up on the United States. Imagine if they decided to revolt.

[theluckycountry]

Problem with overwhelming majority of women these days is that all what they can offer to you is to be naked. But there is no brain, no substance, no ethics - just empty dolls.
Shallow, mindless consumers who will go to bed with anyone who tip them and then cry #me too!
Sure - there are odd exceptions but that doesn't change overall picture.
Degradation of women is IMO one of most important factors of decay of West.

I, from my perspective, put the blame on "Women's Liberation" The movement told them they were smart, they could do anything, they should be in control. What you ended up with is a billion emotional creatures making terrible life choices, choices that they used to leave to their husbands. Now they are spending fortunes on personal beauty and 'pink' accessories. Pink razors are no sharper than black ones but the manufacturers know they can charge more because women are 'silly' when it comes to finances.

Women often choose the home in modern marriages, the choice is based on looks alone with total disregard for the structural integrity of the house. I have seen couples sell beautiful older brick homes to move into garbage new pine-frame blueboard cladded ones simply because the woman wanted an upgraded look. The same applies to fashion in cars and holidays and much else. The single women fair much worse, they rarely end up owning a home.

Personally I view Feminism and women's liberation as a boon for men. It has freed them up from the age old drudgery of having to support a woman and her children, to be bound to her for life. I know a lot of older members here cannot see that and are happy in their marriages but that is because they and their wives are from another generation and still hold the old values. I am from Gen-X, came of age in the 80's when 'shacking up' with a girl was common and marriage not so. I did try marriage, briefly, but was lucky to escape unscathed. Many men stay too long and when the woman eventually leaves suffer great emotional and financial loss.

When I look around me now I see the detritus of the feminism movement, scores of single women in their 50's, struggling on low incomes and still burdened with children, even children in their 30's! A friend calls them "Broken Toys" and who would want them? A worn out woman with more baggage than a Boeing 747, her only desire to find a wallet to make her secure in her old age. To Hell with that! I still have the odd fling but in truth I find riding motorcycles a lot more stimulating now and even younger women a pain to be around. I feel sorry for the younger Millennial men, they seem to have lost their balls, very few know to deal with these creatures of the pink accessory.

[theluckycountry]

For the United States, I think the plan is to use immigrants and their children to face these problems.

It's happening all over the western world. We stopped having enough kids to replace the tax base, that's what's at the heart of it I believe.

I read a report that millions of men in the United States have basically checked out of society.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/men-workfo ... facturing/

Yes well men are not stupid. Many basically see the reality that if they work hard and build a life it will get stolen from them one way or another. So why work hard, why work at all? It's a classic sign of the end, where people just walk away from the system and it collapses under the weight of it's own inadequacies. Decent, then Collapse, that's the pathway spelled out by civilizations.