[EnergyUnlimited]

Stalin invaded Finland in WWII, and Finland gave up territory to Russia in a peace treaty after WWII. And that seemed to satisfy Stalin....at least he didn't invade and take more land or try to conquer all of Finland.

And Ukrainians have refused to negotiate a peace treaty, so they got more war and any further offer (if presented at all) is going to be far less generous than one they could get before war have been started.
On the top if it land which Russia wanted (Crimea, Lugansk & Donieck republics) was inhabited by overwhelming majority of Russians.

Ukriane actually responded much the same way as Finland when Putin sent in Russian special forces and invaded Crimea about 9 years ago. Ukraine (and the west) didn't do much about it. But Putin is worse than Stalin...

You really need to read more about Stalin to discuss these matters in intelligent manner.
Putin is a really nice timid guy comparing to Stalin.

Putins second invasion designed to totally conquer all of Ukraine was beyond anything Stalin tried to do in Finland.

Because Finns were more intelligent and have signed peace treaty with him.

If you think being conquered by people like the Nazis and the modern reactionary Putiniks Russians out to recreate the 19th century Russian empire makes you "better off" then you are welcome to your opinion. Thank goodness most Poles don't share your ideas.

All continental European nations who didn't fight Hitler ended up far better than Poles did.
You are not undertaking a fight if there is no prospect to win.

The Nazis and Russians killed millions of Poles and destroyed Polish cities AFTER they conquered Poland. Your belief that this wouldn't have happened if Poland had surrendered quicker doesn't make any sense and isn't consistent with what actually happened in WWII.

Nope.
Most cities was destroyed either in 1939 during German invasion or in 1944-5 where Russians were pushing Germans out.
Exception was Warsaw - razed to ground as a result of misconceived insurrection against Germans which had no prospect of success anyway.
No other cities were deliberately destroyed during German occupation.
95%+ of occupation time killings was related to industrial scale mass murder of Jews living here (they were our citizens though). Any clever Jew knew that he must escape from Poland once Germans came in 1939. They had about 2 years to do it as real persecution have started only in 1941 and they already knew what was done to their kind in Germany.

And how many millions of Ukrainians would've been murdered and displaced and sent to Russian labor camps if the Ukrainians had just surrendered? And what about future generation of million and millions of Ukrainians? Should they all have to live forever under the thumb of ignorant Russian Nationalist lunatics like Putin?

Maybe few hundreds most vocal nationalists or maybe less.
Millions are getting killed and displaced now as a result of war which Ukraine cannot win.
Somehow Ukrainians and Russians were living quite agreeably before color revolution in 2014.

Ukraine without Ukrainians you mean?

I never said that or thought that or posted that. That crazy thought originated in your mind and then you and you alone decided to post it. You can fantasize about Ukraine without Ukrainians all you want but please don't try to associate your crazy ideas with me.

Wait few years more to see an outcome.
At this rate of loss of population last standing Ukrainian is already on horizon.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Russia is so behind in military innovation they are being outdone by a tiny country like Ukraine. Hardly a day goes by that Ukraine's brave little sea drones or their amazing little military drones don't blast some Russian Naval vessel or destroy some tanks or blow up Russia's main dry dock. Just today Ukraine blew up command complexes for the Russian Navy and the Russian Army, killing many Russian officers.....and both were blown up on the same day. Meanwhile Russia is so behind the times they have to import drones and drone technology from that well known center of innovation.....Iran.

They were also outdone by Napoleon and Germans and look what have happened...

And China is clearly in a debt crisis now and a longer term demographic crisis....that should be obvious to even the most infatuated Putinik.

And US has even larger debt crisis and now is overrun by Mexicans & Co.
At least in US there is no population crisis because more Mexicans are coming than Americans dying.

But I would not hesitate to walk over evening in Shanghai but in NY, LA or SF I would. And in Chicago or Detroit I would hesitate to walk at any time.

[EnergyUnlimited]

That sounds awfully close to "whataboutism" going on there.

The state of Russia or China's deterioration in no way argues counter to our serious deterioration. I don't know that there's much we can do to reverse it at this point, as interest rates increase, we get numerically crushed by interest payments on the debt unless we force folks to buy our bonds at gunpoint rates... Then things get really unstable. Its not a sustainable pattern.

You won't force other nations to buy more US bonds because those who might are already bankrupt and all other have an alternative security arrangements and are resistant to US.
You might have a little mileage left in ASEAN and that's about it.
Dollar is also losing reserve currency status - what can be seen in BRICS trade deals in particular.
It was a huge mistake of American governments to convert reserve currency into a trade weapon.
It have worked for a while but now reserve currency is no longer reserve...

Your current game is just to sell arms to all, would that be an enemy or friend - doesn't matter. Just sell whatever you can to Arabs, ASEAN and Third World in general.
Not long ago US was far more choosy with arms sales.

American decay could be in theory stopped and reversed but required morals and ethics in American society are no longer present.
That is why decay will proceed for quite a while longer.

[Plantagenet]

Ukrainians have refused to negotiate a peace treaty, so they got more war

You have an endless supply of silly excuses for Russia invading Ukraine.

On the top if it land which Russia wanted (Crimea, Lugansk & Donieck republics) was inhabited by overwhelming majority of Russians.

Another silly excuse, but one with a sinister history. Now you're using same excuse Hitler used for invading Czechoslovakia. Of course, yesterday you said Poland shouldn't have fought but instead should have willingly joined with Hitler and Stalin at the start of WWII, so at least you are consistent.


Who in their right mind could actually support Putin's effort to roll back 100 years of history and recreate the Russian Empire with himself as the new Czar?

Cheers!

[AgentR11]

Your painting makes him look much younger than he is. He's aged well, but not *THAT* well.

Which is why this czar stuff is nonsense, he doesn't have that many years left to become and *be* a new czar. People die of natural causes at his age(70), all the time, with little or no warning.

Besides, he's already implemented most of the useful bits of an imperial structure, appointing governors, while keeping the Duma as a legislative body fully in his back pocket. What else could he add that would improve rulership? I can't think of anything. Other steps tend to reduce efficiency and effectiveness more than they help control; so I think what you see in Russian governance is precisely what his objectives were.

So, he rules till his natural death, and then someone like Medvedev takes over, someone much more Stalin like than Putin would ever dream of being. Much more aggressive towards the West in general, and UA most specifically.

Whether 58 year old Medvedev intends to anoint himself Czar, well, I wouldn't put it past him.

That said, I see Russia growing more China like in its structure, no inherited monarchy, but a one major party system with technocrat promotion from within. Not communist, but way too much meddling in business to be called free market capitalism.

[EnergyUnlimited]

You have an endless supply of silly excuses for Russia invading Ukraine.

You made silly comparisons to Finland so I had to point out a difference.
To reiterate - Finland have signed peace treaty at the expense of disputed territories and wiggled out but Ukraine have refused - so they have a devastating war with no prospect of ending any time soon.

Another silly excuse, but one with a sinister history. Now you're using same excuse Hitler used for invading Czechoslovakia. Of course, yesterday you said Poland shouldn't have fought but instead should have willingly joined with Hitler and Stalin at the start of WWII, so at least you are consistent.

And clever Czechs didn't fight Hitler, so their country was spared of devastation.
We did fight him and we ended up badly devastated and then given away by Brits and Americans to be Russian satellite state.

Unfortunately stupid Ukrainians have learned nothing out of this sad story of Poland.
They have decided to fight so they will end up damaged badly and then given away to Russia very much like we did, albeit we hope that some sort protectorate west of Dnieper is salvageable to keep a buffer zone between us and Russia.

And these Ukrainians are in fact so hopelessly stupid that few days ago they have caused dispute with us by insinuating that we are "enablers of Moscow actor".

This resulted in our government openly threatening termination of weapons supply to them:
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/20/euro ... index.html
Complete idiots.
We could stop supplying weapons and close down Rzeszów airport through which American weapons are supplied there and Ukrainians would end up being given away to Russia where they mostly belong in no time at all.
However it is unlikely that we would do that because a sort of protectorate west of Dnieper is handy from our geopolitical perspective - as a separation zone from Russia.

[theluckycountry]

There are basically two types of people posting on this thread. The thinkers.



And these people

[theluckycountry]

Meanwhile Russia has it's own sanctions regime well under way.

Russia introduces restrictions on exports of gasoline, diesel fuel
https://tass.com/economy/1678517

According to the government decree, the restrictions are temporary and begin on September 21 "from the date of its official publication" ...the government has introduced a number of exceptions. In particular, restrictions do not apply to supplies from Russia to the EAEU

To friendly countries in other words.

The Eurasian Economic Union (EAEU or EEU) is an economic union of several post-Soviet states located in Eurasia.

I wonder how much of that fuel was formally going to Western Europe, and how they will cope coming into another Winter.

As I have said, I'm not a fan of Russia, but credit where credit is due. They are playing this hand masterfully and have quite a few Aces up their sleeve. The West needs to realize it's not a smart plan to go out poking bears with sticks, especially not bears whose allies now include Iran and Saudi Arabia.

[Plantagenet]

To reiterate - Finland have signed peace treaty at the expense of disputed territories and wiggled out but Ukraine have refused - so they have a devastating war with no prospect of ending any time soon..

Thats just nonsense....your claim that signing a peace treaty with Russia means you'll have peace isn't true because Russia doesn't keep its peace treaty obligations.

You forget that Russia also signed a peace treaty with Ukraine.

Please allow me to remind you.....Russia and Ukraine DID sign a peace treaty in which Russia guaranteed to respect Ukraines's territorial integrity. The treaty, known as the Budapest Memorandum, was signed in 1994. IN this treaty Russia promised it would respect the borders and territorial integrity of Ukraine.

Clearly when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, and then invaded the rest of Ukraine in 2022, it broke the terms of this treaty.

Other countries who have treaties with Russia took notice that Russia can't be trusted to keep its treaty obligations......for instance, FINLAND.

You keep claiming that Finland got peace because they signed a treaty with Russia, but that treaty is worthless now that Russia has broken its treaty obligation to keep the peace with Ukraine.

AND it is precisely because Russia broke its word and didn't keep its peace treaty obligations that Finland has now entered NATO.


Perfidious Russia broke its word and didn't keep its peace treaty obligations with Ukriane..... Finland saw that Russia breaks peace treaties and responded by joining NATO

Cheers!

[Plantagenet]

[Putin] doesn't have that many years left to become and *be* a new czar.

I'm sure Putin doesn't make his plans based on your claim he is going to die soon.

Besides, he's already implemented most of the useful bits of an imperial structure

Now you are essentially agreeing with me that Putin is acting like the new Czar of Russia.

What else could he add that would improve rulership? I can't think of anything. Other steps tend to reduce efficiency and effectiveness more than they help control; so I think what you see in Russian governance is precisely what his objectives were.

Once again you essentially agree with what I said. Putin has made himself into the new Czar. He personally rules Russia based only on his own whims, nationalist prejudices, paranoid delusions, and psychotic killer motivations.

So, he rules till his natural death, and then someone like Medvedev takes over, someone much more Stalin like than Putin would ever dream of being. Much more aggressive towards the West in general, and UA most specifically.

I don't think Russia is doomed to be ruled by an endless series of Czars and would-be Czars like Stalin and Putin. I'm hoping that after Ukraine sinks the rest of the Russia Black Sea Fleet and cuts off all Russian forces in SE Ukraine and Crimea from food, water, fuel and ammunition, forcing their surrender, Putin will be strongly encouraged to resign and Russia will then have a color revolution. With any luck Russia will then split apart and the last captive nations will gain their freedom from the moribund dregs of the Russian empire.


The final end of the Russian empire is coming.......

Cheers!

[EnergyUnlimited]

Russia and Ukraine DID sign a peace treaty in which Russia guaranteed to respect Ukraines's territorial integrity. The treaty, known as the Budapest Memorandum, was signed in 1994. IN this treaty Russia promised it would respect the borders and territorial integrity of Ukraine.

Clearly when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, and then invaded the rest of Ukraine in 2022, it broke the terms of this treaty.

From time to time different treaties are broken - that is peculiarity related to existence of sovereign states but in this particular situation it was not the case.

This treaty was with Ukrainian government existing at the time when it was signed and its rightful successors.
However in 2014 this government was unlawfully ousted out in an uprising sponsored by West and some impostors of Ukrainian government were subsequently installed.
So as a result some military steps have been taken against entity ruled by these impostors.

For West it was just one color revolution too far.

You keep claiming that Finland got peace because they signed a treaty with Russia, but that treaty is worthless now that Russia has broken its treaty obligation to keep the peace with Ukraine.

Treaty have not been broken by Russia because countersignatory of said treaty have abruptly disappeared due to an unlawful act, as I explained above.

[EnergyUnlimited]

I don't think Russia is doomed to be ruled by an endless series of Czars and would-be Czars like Stalin and Putin.

Russia suffers population decline due to low TFR, alcoholism, abortions and other ills including pending war but it is rather going to be united with China than divided.

If it crumbles it will end up as a Great Duchy of Moscow - how it used to be in the past.
Rest will be united to reflect heritage of Genghis Khan - under Chinese leadership.

[theluckycountry]

Zelensky Departs Washington Mostly Empty-Handed Amid Mood Shift In West

By all accounts, Zelensky came away from his Washington visit with nothing new. Biden did announce a fresh $325 million aid package for Ukraine from already committed funds, but the hoped-for long range missile approval never came

Zellinskee is fast becoming persona-non-grata.

Rand Paul Blasts "Corrupt" Zelensky "Begging For More Money"

Senator Rand Paul doubled down on his staunch opposition to further funding for the war in Ukraine Thursday, blasting the visiting President Zelensky as a leader of a corrupt regime. “They’ve cancelled the elections. What kind of democracy has no election?” he noted, adding “next year, Zelensky said he’s not going to have an election because it would be inconvenient during the war and would be expensive.”

“if you don’t have elections, who in the world will be supporting a country that’s not a democracy? They’ve banned the political parties, they’ve invaded churches, they’ve arrested priests. So, no, it isn’t a democracy. It’s a corrupt regime.”

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/watch-rand-paul-blasts-corrupt-zelensky-begging-more-money

Now back to your scheduled programming

[AgentR11]

Plant, a Czar is a hereditary position; he's not creating a new royal family; but rather something much more akin to the Chinese model of a single party in charge that promotes from within by intrigue, violence, and or talent.

The only difference being that Russia is most done with communism, being much more comfortable with a sort of center-right capitalist market system with a lot of bureaucratic meddling.

[theluckycountry]

The Coming Ukraine Collapse and the “Rebuilding” Headfake

There are significant elements in the American intelligence community, relying on field reports and technical intelligence, who believe that the demoralized Ukraine army has given up on the possibility of overcoming the heavily mined three-tier Russian defense lines and taking the war to Crimea and the four oblasts seized and annexed by Russia. The reality is that Volodymyr Zelensky’s battered army no longer has any chance of a victory….

“There were some early Ukrainian penetrations in the opening days of the June offensive,” the official [ with access to current intelligence] said, “at or near” the heavily trapped first of Russia’s three formidable concrete barriers of defense, “and the Russians retreated to sucker them in. And they all got killed.” After weeks of high casualties and little progress, along with horrific losses to tanks and armored vehicles, he said, major elements of the Ukrainian army, without declaring so, virtually canceled the offensive. The two villages that the Ukrainian army recently claimed as captured “are so tiny that they couldn’t fit between two Burma-Shave signs”—referring to billboards that seemed to be on every American highway after World War II….

“The truth is if the Ukrainian army is ordered to continue the offensive, the army would mutiny. The soldiers aren’t willing to die any more, but this doesn’t fit the B.S. that is being authored by the Biden White House.”

This outcome is not a surprise to anyone who has ventured outside mainstream reporting to find sources that have been paying attention to what is happening on the battlefield and with weapons supplies. Russia was outproducing the entire Collective West in artillery when the war began, and if anything, that gap has widened. Russia also has the advantage in missile production, has substantially increased drone output, and already had the most advanced air defense systems. The West despite handwaves has done little to increase capacity...

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2023/09 ... dfake.html

[evilgenius]

That sounds awfully close to "whataboutism" going on there.

The state of Russia or China's deterioration in no way argues counter to our serious deterioration. I don't know that there's much we can do to reverse it at this point, as interest rates increase, we get numerically crushed by interest payments on the debt unless we force folks to buy our bonds at gunpoint rates... Then things get really unstable. Its not a sustainable pattern.

You won't force other nations to buy more US bonds because those who might are already bankrupt and all other have an alternative security arrangements and are resistant to US.
You might have a little mileage left in ASEAN and that's about it.
Dollar is also losing reserve currency status - what can be seen in BRICS trade deals in particular.
It was a huge mistake of American governments to convert reserve currency into a trade weapon.
It have worked for a while but now reserve currency is no longer reserve...

Your current game is just to sell arms to all, would that be an enemy or friend - doesn't matter. Just sell whatever you can to Arabs, ASEAN and Third World in general.
Not long ago US was far more choosy with arms sales.

American decay could be in theory stopped and reversed but required morals and ethics in American society are no longer present.
That is why decay will proceed for quite a while longer.

You guys don't see that amid a massive property driven deflationary crisis in China, US bonds will be the most valuable thing most countries outside the US can own? It may be inevitable. It could be ensured, with another rate rise or two. Because the US directly influences the cost of borrowing everywhere. The Chinese are barely hanging on right now. Their property companies are beginning to declare bankruptcy.

What I'm wondering is if the Chinese government will take this opportunity to recognize its citizens on a more individual basis rather than as members of groups or collectively? The greatest issue with China, viewed from America, used to be whether they could adopt capitalism. We were certain that would come with some form of democracy. Now, we don't know what to think. Yet, everything that is beautiful about China shines through as they grow. Let's hope the opposite doesn't happen as they shrink.

[AgentR11]

Anyone take note of the Canadian parliament giving a standing ovation for a 98 year old veteran of the Waffen SS who fought against the Soviets in WW2? ie, he fought on the side of Hitler. A real live, 100% Nazi, standing O in the West.

Yall couldn't have thought of a more potent bit of Russian Agitprop if you spent a year doing it. Kiss your color revolution ideas goodbye.

[EnergyUnlimited]

You guys don't see that amid a massive property driven deflationary crisis in China, US bonds will be the most valuable thing most countries outside the US can own? It may be inevitable. It could be ensured, with another rate rise or two. Because the US directly influences the cost of borrowing everywhere. The Chinese are barely hanging on right now. Their property companies are beginning to declare bankruptcy.

Which currency would you hold?
1. Deflationary?
2. Inflationary?
And which one would you spend?

Another thing is about bankruptcies.
They are going on and on in Chinese property companies as much as in American financial ones and yet somehow it all carries on.
How long it will be the case I don't know but for now it works (sort of).

What I'm wondering is if the Chinese government will take this opportunity to recognize its citizens on a more individual basis rather than as members of groups or collectively?

Unlikely. Too much hassle and they don't work this way, unless you are prominent enough to be noticed.

The greatest issue with China, viewed from America, used to be whether they could adopt capitalism.

They are already more capitalistic than America or EU is now - so they could.

We were certain that would come with some form of democracy. Now, we don't know what to think.

But Chinese know - their flirt with democracy at the beginning of XX century resulted in such a mess that they will not try it for next few hundreds of years at least.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Anyone take note of the Canadian parliament giving a standing ovation for a 98 year old veteran of the Waffen SS who fought against the Soviets in WW2? ie, he fought on the side of Hitler. A real live, 100% Nazi, standing O in the West.

Yall couldn't have thought of a more potent bit of Russian Agitprop if you spent a year doing it. Kiss your color revolution ideas goodbye.

As we all know, headless chicken can live for quite a while:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken
So Canada can carry on as well!

[theluckycountry]

You guys don't see that amid a massive property driven deflationary crisis in China, US bonds will be the most valuable thing most countries outside the US can own? It may be inevitable.

With a national debt of 33 Trillion? And having to borrow a Trillion a year just to pay the interest? In 1960 the debt to GDP was 50%, Now it's 122%. But back in 1960 the GDP didn't include home loans, or CC debt, or all the other BS they include to bloat the figure. A home can be a component of GDP, it's a product, a tangible made thing. But these virtual products they added are like bitcoins, only of value because a small clique say they are. They don't add to a nations wealth, they subtract from it.

China is still building new highways, new fast train links. In America all these things are in decline and decay. America is just a set of crumbling roads and aging shopping malls which are getting looted on a daily basis by Lazy Blacks that want their share of what's left of the American Dream. Everyone outside the US knows this, knows it's day in the sun is over. It's just one big maxed out credit card. China is all over the world, doing deals, stealing former American assets like Saudi Arabia right out from under their noses. I don't know what will happen in China in the decade ahead but whatever it is I'm sure they will suffer a lot less than the US did in the Great Depression. Then they will bounce back, but not the US, it's a spent force. The whole West is an energy starved spent force.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/