[AgentR11]

And yet the lines don't move. Inches for Russia in Avdeevka, maybe some inches for Ukraine on the river. Flashy pictures and hype media don't win wars like this. Its all very disappointing. NATO either needs to get in the fight to win (and die a lot), or they need to let Ukraine come up with a peace treaty with Russia that reflects the reality of the battlefield.

Sick of this really, its pathetic.

[ralfy]

That's how neocons play: send money and arms, generally unaudited, and passed on to public debt, then make deals with the other side when things go wrong.

Meanwhile, their neoliberal opponents are happy, too, because the rich profit from arms sales.

[Plantagenet]

There is a suspicion that the goal of the Biden people all along was to support Ukraine just to the point that they could fight to a stalemate with Russia, thereby causing Russia to suffer huge losses in manpower and equipment.


If Russia and Ukriane fight each other to a bloody statement, does that mean that Joe Biden and the USA wins?

Cheers!

[Pops]

Sorry, not been following this thread here but those last few posts sound right.

From our perspective It is a proxy war using our bullets to wear down an unfriendly adversary that went too far into NATO-land
From their perspective it is maybe Puties last grasp at empire / perhaps a lurch at what is beyond UA: the passes from EU... maybe he thought it would be a cakewalk like Crimea... or heck if I know.

Trump and others in the right-hand ditch fawning over Puties bare chest feels like a spooky echo of the period before the last world war when the German Nazies were actively playing footsie with america's right wing. The story goes the big portrait hanging behind the Fuhrer's desk was none other than old Henry Ford, LOL, I have no idea.... But this time there are some lefties backing RU too, weird. Maybe just typical antiestablishmentarianism. (always wanted to type that)

Joe's played it cool, starting small in UA and working up to the bigger guns. He schmoozed with Xi in San Fran like old pals and then did send the big guns to the Med for that front, and I guess helped with the ceasefire maybe... lots of balls in the air for an old fart on his deathbed.

I can't get a handle on casualties, Wiki says US estimates UA 70k KIA / 110k wounded and RU= 120k KIA / 175k wounded. is that what you all have seen?

[careinke]

Pops,

Ukraine is not part of NATO, so why do you think it's NATO-Land? I'm confused. Plus the only REAL Nazi's in this war are in the Ukrainian army.

Peace

[theluckycountry]

These wars have nothing to do with politics and everything to do with money. If the US can't create conflicts, endless wars, then the Military industrial complex will go broke. The US government spends nearly a trillion a year on defence, mostly borrowed money, and it's touted at 3.5% of GDP.

GDP is composed of goods and services produced for sale in the market and also includes some non-market production, such as defense or education services provided by the government.

But since GDP is mostly composed of things like insurance payments, home loans, late payments on credit cards etc etc, the Real gdp figure, actual productive work, is a lot less. It's this Real gdp that actually carries the country. Making weapons and selling them is a big part of that, sometimes to overseas nations but mostly for use in US wars.

Biden, Obama, Trump, clinton bush, they are all the same, figureheads is all they are, the real power is the corporations that sell the arms and the pills and the food etc. If this wasn't the case then at least one of those presidents would have dialed back this insane warmongering across the planet. But no one ever does, because they would be out of a job in short order. Basically you don't get the top job unless you have been approved first. You have to be "in the club" you have to have proven you're willing to go along with the status quo. You think Trump was a random outsider to this complex? Trump is a billionaire, who do you think he has dinner with? Who do you think he parties with, Midwestern farmers and auto workers? Or billionaire executives of empires just like he is. Anyone who believed his election promises is a retard in my opinion. Drain the Swamp? He lives in the swamp.

The wealthy men in Trump's inner circle with links to tax havens https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/n ... tax-havens

Reagan's handler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTcL6Xc_eMM

[Pops]

NATO

NATO likes UA for the same reason putie does, UA is the buffer between Russia and the passes through the Carpathian mountains. Those would be the path of a ground war between RU and EU.

You missed my point about nazies, it's not that russians are nazies (heaven forbid), but that they are obviously playing to the right-wing in this country and seem to be having good effect. Just like Henry Ford and "father" Coughlin did back when. I guess it is the fixation on trump and his sycophancy to big bad vlad but I really have no clue

You tell me.

[AgentR11]

Pretty sure UA is also valuable to NATO, particularly Crimea, in that it places them within the horizon of nuclear launch sites in the Urals for a boost phase intercept, which is honestly the only REAL vulnerable part of the trajectory.

[Pops]

Ah, very good AR, thanks

[ralfy]

Both sides in the states are alike. The Republicans don't like China because it's a rival, the Democrats don't like Russia because it's a rival, and both work for the 10 pct of Americans that own 70 pct of the country's wealth, and for which everyone else is dependent on for credit.

And all that started long before Trump became President.

[theluckycountry]

Bulgarian president vetoes agreement with Ukraine on supply of armored personnel carriers

"The life and health of Bulgarian citizens should be the top priority," Rumen Radev pointed out... "The armored personnel carriers [to be] provided to Ukraine could be used to protect the Bulgarian border and to help the population in case of disasters and accidents. The life and health of Bulgarian citizens should be the top priority," the president pointed out, sending the agreement back to parliament for reconsideration.

https://tass.com/world/1715539

Russian forces hammer Ukrainian troops, equipment in 107 areas over past day https://tass.com/politics/1715651

Boring old war, I wish they'd hurry up and surrender. That'll be the fun part

[ralfy]

"US nearly out of money for Ukraine's war against Russia, White House tells Congress"

[theluckycountry]

Where's Plant with his "Brave little ukrainian canoes"? Come on plant, tell us all how the ukraine is gonna win any day soon because...

[EnergyUnlimited]

For what I have read US are now withholding further help for Ukraine. Senate have rejected aid project due to disagreement about local immigration policy.
It seems that Ukrainians have already done what they were expected to do and now they can go back to Russia where they belong.
In Poland we are observing it and it may well be an indication of what is in store for Poland in perspective of 5-10 years.
That is another reason why it was better for Ukrainians to strike a deal with Putin 2 years ago.
Outcome would be the same and no life and infrastructure loss.

[theluckycountry]

It seems that Ukrainians have already done what they were expected to do and now they can go back to Russia where they belong.

I wouldn't worry too much about Russia taking over poland, it doesn't need it, and that's why nations take over other nations, because they want they have or because they -like post WWII- want a buffer zone. Stalin was a one off, like Hitler was a one off. It was just a mad era and I can't see it being repeated.

All the western nations are coming out with negative comments about the zelinskee regime and now it's internal.

Zelensky Will "Pay For His Mistakes" Says Kiev Mayor Vitali Klitschko

Volodymyr Zelensky failed to prepare Ukraine properly for the war with Russia and will “pay for his mistakes,” warned Kyiv Mayor Vitali Klitschko. The former heavyweight boxing champion made the comments to Swiss news outlet 20 Minuten.

Klitschko was asked if he was surprised to see Zelensky’s popularity declining across the country. “No. People see who is effective and who is not, and there were and are many expectations. Zelensky is paying for the mistakes he made,” he responded. “The dispute between the president and the top military officer shows that the unified home front in Ukraine is crumbling,” wrote Lehnartz. “And every doubt expressed in Kyiv about Ukraine’s prospects of success is being reinforced in the corridors of European and American government headquarters.”

Last month, CNN reported on a Time article which quoted a top Zelensky aide as saying, “He deludes himself. We’re out of options. We’re not winning.”

https://modernity.news/2023/12/05/zelen ... -klitschko
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... -klitschko

Time for some brave little ukrainian schoolboys to march into Moscow and throw spitballs at Putin.

There is an axis of Evil and we must carpet bomb the middle east


The Islamic State is the Face of Evil and I vow to destroy it


We will defeat this... New Axis of Evil



Hey, Don't forget Me


Sorry, but there were no war profits in your case

[Plantagenet]

Where's Plant ...

I’m travelling in France. I started out in Paris and then went to Strausbourg and Colman. Then to Grenoble and then on to Nimes.

Now I’m on a high speed TGV train back to Paris.

It’s been a really wonderful trip……and as a bonus things seem relatively inexpensive in France now compared to the USA after all the inflation caused by Joe Biden’s economic mismanagement.

Cheers!

[EnergyUnlimited]

I wouldn't worry too much about Russia taking over poland, it doesn't need it, and that's why nations take over other nations, because they want they have or because they -like post WWII- want a buffer zone. Stalin was a one off, like Hitler was a one off. It was just a mad era and I can't see it being repeated.

History teaches us the other way.
We was in the past conquered by Russia (before Hitler or Stalin), so why not now?
At one point we have conquered Russia too and incorporated Moscow to Poland or rather Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as Poland was known in 17th century when we did it, but it didn't last long - though no one else have ever succeeded with that.

There are few competing arguments here.
First it is good to distance Poland from a West a bit because West is going down a drain and it is pointless to join in.
OTOH if we ended up in Russia as a result it would also be very unfortunate.

Ukraine left as a rump state at least is handy.
Good to have a buffer zone.
OTOH it is impossible to honestly argue that land east of Dnieper or Crimean peninsula is historically Ukraine.
Crimea should go back to Turkey and lands east of Dnieper to Russia.
West of Dnieper used to be Poland.
Ukrainians *are* a sort of nation but with no state history - so really there is nothing what could be called Ukrainian state from historic perspective.
You may compare them to Kurd nation, but they would be a second grade Kurds.

All the western nations are coming out with negative comments about the zelinskee regime and now it's internal.

By now he is most successful beggar on the world... but Americans are getting increasingly mean to him.
Bad Americans!
They have used him!

[Shaved Monkey]

It would be a good time to be an arms manufacturer all that old stock needs renewing

So many middle men making a cut that want this to go on and on

[theluckycountry]

I feel sorry for those people who donated aid to the ukrainian regime, all it went into weapons and a lot of those were sold on the black market by the thieves over there. The Hezbola gets a lot of updated weapons there it is rumored. What a racket, and millions of dutiful little flag-waving drones cheering it on believing it's 'democracy' Which is just a construct to keep dutiful little drones toiling in factories for the greater good. Of course as a capitalist who ran his own business I was happy with this status quo. Someone has to pull the cart we ride in.

[Shaved Monkey]

I feel sorry for those people who donated aid to the ukrainian regime, all it went into weapons and a lot of those were sold on the black market by the thieves over there. The Hezbola gets a lot of updated weapons there it is rumored.

Quite a bit will end up in the hands of right wing extremists throughout Europe too ,they have representation and networks on the front lines, as well as general organised crime gangs.