Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby theluckycountry » Wed 13 Dec 2023, 02:13:27

Shaved Monkey wrote:Quite a bit will end up in the hands of right wing extremists throughout Europe too ,they have representation and networks on the front lines


I thought this mises read was interesting.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine began with a bombardment of cruise missiles on February 24, 2022. Later that day, infantry and armored divisions rolled in from Russia, Belarus, and Crimea while paratroopers dropped in around the capital city of Kyiv.

Days later, as the shock and confusion of the initial offensive began to dissipate, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky attempted to set up indirect talks with Russian president Vladimir Putin. Zelensky called then–Israeli prime minister Naftali Bennett and asked him to contact Putin and to serve as a mediator. Bennett agreed.

Over the next week, Bennett had a series of phone calls with Putin before traveling to Moscow and Berlin to help organize diplomatic communication channels. His effort culminated in a March 10 meeting between the Russian and Ukrainian foreign ministers in Turkey.

In the series of talks that followed, Bennett described both sides as making “huge concessions” in pursuit of a ceasefire.

But Kyiv’s Western backers were resistant to the truce. At a special summit on March 24, NATO decided not to support or approve the peace negotiations. Still, Zelensky and Putin kept at it. And on March 29, the two sides reached an agreement.

According to a draft unsealed this past June, Russia had agreed to pull its forces back to prewar boundaries. In exchange, Ukraine had agreed it would not seek NATO membership.

So why didn’t it happen? Well, it may have started to. In early April, Russia withdrew its forces from northern Ukraine, around Kyiv—an action Putin later said was related to the Istanbul agreement.

But then, according to Bennett, former German chancellor Gerhard Schröder, Turkish foreign minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, and the leader of the Ukrainian delegation to the talks, David Arakhamia, the West pressured Zelensky to abandon negotiations and fight.

Assuming the best intentions, it’s possible officials in Washington and Brussels believed the Ukrainians could win enough battles to improve their leverage in future negotiations. But that is not what happened.

Instead, Washington bankrolled a horrifying twenty-one-month war of attrition that has cost the people of Ukraine greatly in land, lives, and limbs. After talks broke down, Russia laid permanent claim to tens of thousands of square miles of Ukrainian territory that it had earlier agreed to relinquish.

Last summer, Ukrainian forces began attempting to retake this land by force in the so-called counteroffensive. But they have since lost more territory than they have gained. Ukraine keeps its casualty count classified, but by the end of August US estimates had put it north of two hundred thousand. And it has likely climbed substantially with the ongoing struggle to break through heavy Russian minefields.

As their supply of military-aged men has dwindled, the average age of a Ukrainian soldier has climbed to forty-three. And now there is a push within the Ukrainian government to lower the draft age to begin conscripting those who have so far been too young to be eligible.

The Ukrainian people are being put through hell. And now even senior Ukrainian military officials admit there is no military path out.

If the purpose of stifling the Istanbul agreement was to help the Ukrainians gain more leverage, the West must admit failure before Ukraine loses even more.

And if Washington’s intentions were more nefarious—as comments from officials like Mitch McConnell, who have framed the war as an easy way to burden Russia without spilling American blood, suggest—that’s all the more reason to call off this horrific project.

That brings us back to the original question. What would happen if the United States stopped supporting Ukraine? We already know. Ukraine and Russia would work toward a deal. It won’t go as well for Ukraine as it did almost two years ago when they were stronger. But it’s not a path to fear. Because the alternative is that the White House gets its way and this brutal, unnecessary war carries on. And that’s so much worse.
Author:
Contact Connor O'Keeffe
https://mises.org/wire/what-would-happe ... ng-ukraine

No profits in peace.
après moi le déluge
theluckycountry
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2021, 18:08:48
Location: Australia

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Wed 13 Dec 2023, 03:42:02

Shaved Monkey wrote:
theluckycountry wrote:I feel sorry for those people who donated aid to the ukrainian regime, all it went into weapons and a lot of those were sold on the black market by the thieves over there. The Hezbola gets a lot of updated weapons there it is rumored.

Quite a bit will end up in the hands of right wing extremists throughout Europe too ,they have representation and networks on the front lines, as well as general organised crime gangs.

Western Europe will be fun to watch - once those right wing extremists take on Muslim population and fireworks start going off.
But before they will start fighting one another they are going to join forces and oust current left wing extremists ruling Europe - who are a common enemy of both of them.
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7356
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Wed 13 Dec 2023, 05:25:52

EnergyUnlimited wrote:
Shaved Monkey wrote:
theluckycountry wrote:I feel sorry for those people who donated aid to the ukrainian regime, all it went into weapons and a lot of those were sold on the black market by the thieves over there. The Hezbola gets a lot of updated weapons there it is rumored.

Quite a bit will end up in the hands of right wing extremists throughout Europe too ,they have representation and networks on the front lines, as well as general organised crime gangs.

Western Europe will be fun to watch - once those right wing extremists take on Muslim population and fireworks start going off.
But before they will start fighting one another they are going to join forces and oust current left wing extremists ruling Europe - who are a common enemy of both of them.


This from an article in 2018
These guys were already organised and had some military training now they have access to weapons on the black market and even more military training....pretty scary really
.......................................
Feared 'Trouble Company' hooligan gang claim responsibility for cowardly attack on Liverpool fans - and threaten more to come

They posted a string of online ­messages after the attack, warning they were ­gearing up for “an active weekend”.

One wrote: “Welcome to hell.” A second urged further attacks, writing: “F*** em up CSKA.”

And another chillingly warned: “Training for the World Cup.”

The Trouble Company is made up of fans who supported CSKA Kiev, which was dissolved in 2009. Since then they have travelled Europe looking for aggro.

Their social media account, linked to the CSKA Supporters group, is littered with videos showing “hooligan factories” where they batter each other in woodland camps.
Members of the groups post images from locations across Europe, including Amsterdam and Brussels.
And it is feared the Ukraine thugs and other hardline factions – who stage military-style training sessions – will converge on Russia to launch attacks.
Kiev is home to a string of soccer hooligan firms. Among the most dangerous are the right-wing Nazi thugs of the White Boys Club, who follow the city’s best known team, Dynamo Kiev.

They are infamous for sporting Ku Klux Klan hoods on match days.

Many of the Troubled Company ­hooligans have forged links with other firms across the continent, including Russia.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/russian- ... g-12604330
Ready to turn Zombies into WWOOFers
User avatar
Shaved Monkey
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2486
Joined: Wed 30 Mar 2011, 01:43:28

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 15 Dec 2023, 07:37:48

400,000 Ukrainians Killed In Action Explains A Whole Lot https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... -whole-lot

The military chronicle analyzed the expansion of the largest cemeteries in Ukraine

It is noted that on the basis of open data, the Military Chronicle managed to calculate that in just a year (from July 2022 to July 2023), Ukrainian armed formations lost at least 185 thousand people killed on the battlefield. However, the real losses are much greater: many bodies are still in morgues or have not been evacuated from the battlefield. A significant part of the dead were buried in existing cemeteries, but apparently, simultaneously with the burial of the bodies found and delivered for burial, Ukraine began to prepare in advance for larger burials.
https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2023- ... Vx5Tn.html


Date Night

Image
après moi le déluge
theluckycountry
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2021, 18:08:48
Location: Australia

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sun 17 Dec 2023, 04:24:47

Watch: Ukraine Politician Throws Hand Grenades In Town Meeting, Wounding 26
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/wat ... ounding-26

Because... It's peaceful democratic Ukraine.

The attendees flinch, however, demonstrating normalcy bias -- people's tendency to ignore or disbelieve indicators of danger -- almost all of them simply watch as all three grenades are dropped to the floor. One woman can be seen leaning away as if bracing against firecrackers rather than imminent, shrapnel-propelling explosions. Another in the second row merely covers her ears.


Video-- https://nypost.com/2023/12/15/news/vide ... p-meeting/
après moi le déluge
theluckycountry
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2021, 18:08:48
Location: Australia

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 22 Dec 2023, 14:34:43

Ukraine just shot down 3 Russian supersonic SU-34 fighter planes IN A SINGLE DAY!!!.

[url=https://news.yahoo.com/air-force-ukraine-downs-3-153744931.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAWjEsmngBLwa_G8sa6NEUtRUJgZCb2KEL5AlNO5mCIFqV3lJnDr5B8mJimr5FB1tyGZ-0sPsrggU2VtxzpSPrpqerktx6TQfgI6ODrABrtDJV0zB_h1U_TdFcvbxRCUDdQEQ0ShQ6zCAuqwLmeVhRCASF1nVW-lFOgMYsfy7tY9[/url]

It's not clear how tiny little Ukraine managed to shoot down three of Russia's most modern fighter jets. Apparently they have some kind of new secret weapon??? One guess is that Ukraine used US supplied patriot anti-missle systems to take down the three Russian SU-34 fighter bombers, but this would definitely be off-label use.

Once again, tiny little Ukraine has shown a surprising ability to use the limited weapons they have at hand in innovative ways to fight back against the vastly superior numbers of the Russian hordes launched at them by their much larger neighbor.

Image
Brave little Ukraine just used a secret weapon to shoot down 3 Russian SU-34 fighter jets in a single day...

Cheers!
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26629
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 22 Dec 2023, 17:56:55

More fake reports on Telegram. I suppose they have to make up these stories to bolster moral with whoever is left fighting over there.
après moi le déluge
theluckycountry
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2021, 18:08:48
Location: Australia

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 22 Dec 2023, 18:46:40

Here's a similar news story from a week ago.....this story says that Russia accidentally shot down its own SU-25 bomber and Ukraine destroyed a second Russian SU-34 in an attack on a Russian airfield.

russia-loses-two-fighter-jets-su25-su34-ukraine-

Personally, I think its clever of Ukraine to use its patriot missiles to attack Russian fighter jets, because Russia launches cruise missile attacks from the jets while they are in the air.

The Ukrainians could use the Patriots to take out each cruise missile one by one, but by using their Patriots to target Russian fighter jets the Ukrainians can shoot down a valuable Russian air force plane AND also destroy the cruise missiles it is carrying. AND, the Russian planes shot down by Ukraine are removed from the battlefield----they are not longer available to launch more attacks.

And that doesn't even include the the Russians shooting down their own SU-25.....thats just a bonus.

Image
Russian troops were celebrating shooting down a jet before realizing it was one of their own.......

Cheers!
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26629
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 24 Dec 2023, 12:23:52

Here is a good post by a smart guy.

https://youtu.be/-8ZPbnVqHrY?si=zlNGBcboWXFlQTYf
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18510
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sun 24 Dec 2023, 17:45:12

Meat Wave attacks? I think it's pretty obvious that the Ukrainians are the ones in the meat grinder. Russia isn't chasing any new territory, it has the regions it went after and is now sitting behind a wall of artillery and missile defenses while the stupid ukrainians keep trying to push them back.

The ukraine regime is under constant pressure to come up with "victory" reports to convince the west to send more arms, half of which they are selling on the black market. The Russians have no incentive to make shit up, the special operation has achieved every goal and all these ongoing battles are doing is weakening the ukrainian position and decimating its population further. Something the strategists in Moscow are no doubt happy to see.


"A total of 558 aircraft, 261 helicopters, 10,040 drones, 442 anti-aircraft missile systems, 14,299 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 1,189 multiple rocket launchers, 7,479 field branch artillery weapons and mortars, as well as 16,660 units of special tactical vehicles have been destroyed since the beginning of the special military operation," the ministry said.

Meanwhile, in the past 24 hours, the Russian army has intercepted three HARM missiles, three HIMARS rockets, a Neptun anti-ship missile, as well as shot down four Ukrainian aircraft and 49 UAVs of the Ukrainian army, the Defense Ministry went on to say. "Air defense systems shot down four Ukrainian aircraft: three Su-27 and one Su-24 planes of the Ukrainian air forces near the settlements of Shirokoye, Odarovka in the Zaporozhye Region and Grigorovka of the Dnepropetrovsk Region
https://tass.com/defense/1725959

Sure the Russians are suffering losses, that's because they are not using their state of the art equipment but simply older generations that were slated for mothballing anyway. The troops on the line aren't their elite either, 100,000 former prisoners were sent in remember. Very smart of Moscow, they saved a fortune there just in prison expenditure. The US could take a page out of their book for it's pointless wars.
après moi le déluge
theluckycountry
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2021, 18:08:48
Location: Australia

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 25 Dec 2023, 19:03:18

theluckycountry wrote:Sure the Russians are suffering losses, that's because they are not using their state of the art equipment...


Ukraine claims it shot down two more state of the art Russian fighter bombers, for a total of five shot down in three days.

ukraine-downs-five-Russian-planes-r

Again, the Ukrianians aren't saying how they are doing this, but the best guess is that they are using the US Patriot anti-missile systems to fire at the Russian jets.

The success the Ukrainians are having shows that these "state of the art" Russian jets don't have the ability to detect or avoid missile attacks----which will make them sitting ducks when the US supplied F-16s finally get delivered to Ukraine.

Image
The radar has detected another Russian jet incoming..........no problem........launching another Patriot anti-plane missile.......BOOM!!!!

Cheers!
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26629
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 26 Dec 2023, 16:45:31

Ukraine blows up ANOTHER ship from the Russian Black Sea Fleet-----this time its one of the landing craft/cargo ships carrying a load of Iranian Shaheed drones to the occupying forces in Crimea.

Needless to say, when you blow up a cargo ship full of explosives, you get a REALY BIG EXPLOSION

Image
Ka-BOOM goes another Russian Black Sea Fleet ship!!!!

huge-explosion-rocks-russian-ship-after-ukrainian-airstrike-

In addition to destroying the Russian ship and its cargo, the port facilities are all on fire. No doubt the port facilities are destroyed as well-----and the most amazing thing of all is that this is the SECOND time Russia has tried to ship in military supplies using a Black Sea Fleet ship, and the SECOND TIME Ukraine has hit just as it arrives in port, thereby accomplishing the destruction of the ship, its cargo, AND the port infrastructure all in one attack.

Cheers!
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26629
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 26 Dec 2023, 19:25:26

Lucky,

Yeah, according to them they destroyed many, many Western aid items even before they were delivered to Ukraine. Yesterday they claimed they downed 6 yet to be delivered F-16’s.

They have released pictures of what the CLAIMED to he F-16’s. One satellite photo of supposedly destroyed F-16’s was actually a Russian airfield that had been hit by Ukraine and another was a burned out F-16 from a crash somewhere in Asia in 2018.

This stuff is all for Russian domestic consumption where people have no ability to fact check.

I think you are an honest guy who appreciates the truth. I fear you will someday be sorely disappointed.


Overall, we rate the Russian News Agency (TASS), Questionable based on the consistent promotion of Russian Propaganda, conspiracies, and poor sourcing of information.


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/russian- ... e_vignette
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18510
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby theluckycountry » Tue 26 Dec 2023, 21:22:07

Well Newfie I just look at the big picture mostly, not the day to day press releases, though I make an exception for plant lol. Russia lying, why not. the ukrainians lying, absolutely. But the western press will always paint them in a better light, there is no truth in western press now. Why Americans get all gung-ho about these wars is the real mystery, because ever since WWII they haven't actually won one. This proxy war in the ukraine is a loser too, just like afghanistan, 20 years and untold trillions, flushed down the toilet.

The fact is the Russian military is strong. It's all over the world, has bases around the world, and I am somehow supposed to believe that a minor nation that can't even wage war on its own resources is going to succeed? Here's what's going to happen, Russia and the ukraine will make a peace deal and Russia will get to keep all the lands it's occupied. Part of the deal will be that the ukraine doesn't enter NATO, then the gas and oil will flow from Russia again and the ukraine can start to rebuild itself.

Ukraine in the face of a demographic catastrophe
The Russian invasion of Ukraine has aggravated the country’s already extremely difficult demographic situation, creating the prospect of a demographic catastrophe. Over the course of its three decades of independence, Ukraine has experienced a deepening population loss due to negative birth rates and high migration dynamics. Although Ukraine had a population of 51.5 million after gaining independence, in 2019 its estimated population size was a mere 37 million. The ongoing war has resulted in a large (although undisclosed) number of both military (mostly men in their prime) and civilian casualties, and has triggered a wave of refugees whose prospects of returning to their former places of residence are unclear.
https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/os ... atastrophe

The ukraine is rooted! The people were abandoning it long before the war too.

Image

https://www.intellinews.com/ukraine-s-p ... mn-280802/
https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa ... 3-03-08_en

Newfie wrote:I fear you will someday be sorely disappointed.


By what?
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com Who owns that? Obviously not russians lol.
après moi le déluge
theluckycountry
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2021, 18:08:48
Location: Australia

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 27 Dec 2023, 15:07:25

Lucky,

There Is a lot of truth in many of your posts. But you also have a blind spot. Of course you can not see it, nor are you alone.

Predicting how Ukraine will end is a fools game. The forces that control that are not in Moscow or Kiev. They might not be in Washington or Brussles either.

But you will have a very hard time convincing me Russia is anything lime an even competitor to NATO, should NATO decide to engage. Russiahas. Uses and that is a different matter.

I wl say again, we are being drowned in a tsunami of BS, propagated by all players. We are as October's leaves, dropped upon a rqging rtorent, along for the ride, hoping not to drown.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18510
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 27 Dec 2023, 15:13:59

NATO VS RUSSIA
Population 957 million vs 130 million
GDP $32.4 trillion vs 1.8 trillion

Just in gross scale there is no comparison, should NATO turn its full attention to Russia.

Nukes aside. But then one should ask "Why allow 8 billion people be threatened by 0.13 billion?
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18510
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby theluckycountry » Wed 27 Dec 2023, 16:39:59

Newfie wrote:
Nukes aside. But then one should ask "Why allow 8 billion people be threatened by 0.13 billion?


Threatened? Come now Newfie, you're American so you have a vested interest in the status quo but you have to admit, the US has been threatening the world ever since 1945. They have invaded and killed a hell of lot more over the past decades than Russia. Your nation, under the guidance of major corporations have murdered millions probably, all in the name of "democracy". WMD? That was a lie, even bush admitted it. The US invaded Iraq to try and control the middle eastern oil but it's failed. If there is a blind spot in anyone's thinking it is in yours my friend. After WWII Russia made a fence and kept their armies behind it. What does Europe have to fear from them now? The fence is down, those former countries are NATO. Leave Russia alone and it will leave you alone.

NO, it's all western BS, they want to loot Russia of it's natural resources but it wont happen. And they probably won't start a war either because they are degenerate bankrupt old nations more concerned with protecting their muslim immigrants and their transgender perverts. Everything about western culture is corrupt now and corrupt empires collapse, always have.
après moi le déluge
theluckycountry
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2021, 18:08:48
Location: Australia

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 27 Dec 2023, 19:50:26

theluckycountry wrote: Russia lying, why not.


The problem with Russia repeatedly lying is that they lose all credibility.

The sinking of the Novocherkassk is a very clear case where Russia again has been caught lying.

novocherkassk-ship-air-strike

Russia's claim that Novocherkass was only "damaged" with only one person killed is absolutely absurd, given the huge size of the explosion. Clearly the Ukrainian attack detonated all the explosives aboard the ship and the resultant explosion completely destroyed the ship and killed everyone on board and everyone on the docks who was unloading the ship. Reports today say the explosion was so huge that large pieces of the Russian ship were left scattered through the city after the explosion.

And now satellite imagery totally confirms the Ukrainian version of events. Once again the official Russian statement has been shown to be a total fraud.

Image
Satellite pics prove the Russians are lying again----another Black Sea ship has been utterly destroyed and another Russian port facility destroyed.

The Russians have now lost 30 of the original 80 ships in their Black Sea fleet. They now have no more landing craft to carry weapons to crimea, and to make the situation even more difficult the Kerch strait bridge to Crimea is out of commission again, and the railroads into Crimea are all blown up.

Cheers!
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26629
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby ralfy » Wed 27 Dec 2023, 20:07:07

Newfie wrote:NATO VS RUSSIA
Population 957 million vs 130 million
GDP $32.4 trillion vs 1.8 trillion

Just in gross scale there is no comparison, should NATO turn its full attention to Russia.

Nukes aside. But then one should ask "Why allow 8 billion people be threatened by 0.13 billion?


From what I've read, citizens of NATO countries are unwilling to fight or serve, just like their U.S. counterparts. They're also buried in high prices and debt, and are even running out of money to send to Ukraine.

Meanwhile, besides probably around a third of the Ukrainian population fleeing (several to Russia) or dead, the ave. age of their military is now 43. There's news that they have to draft even minors, children, and the mentally disabled.

Saudi Arabia, China, and others continue to trade with Russia, while the crisis involving Palestinians is leading to greater polarity and hatred towards not only Israel but the U.S. as well. The U.S. and NATO are dependent on several of them for their own needs, like materials needed to make ammo from China and fossil fuels from Russia and Saudi Arabia.

Finally, one underlying reason for that hatred involves what the U.S. was doing for decades.

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/

Given that, what will it take for the U.S. to redeem itself before a world that's becoming increasingly multipolar? Barring such an act, what will it have to do to negotiate with Russia and others and avoid more conflict?
User avatar
ralfy
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5603
Joined: Sat 28 Mar 2009, 11:36:38
Location: The Wasteland

Re: Russia/Ukraine Crisis Pt. 19

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Thu 28 Dec 2023, 00:21:40

theluckycountry wrote:
Newfie wrote:
Nukes aside. But then one should ask "Why allow 8 billion people be threatened by 0.13 billion?


Threatened? Come now Newfie, you're American so you have a vested interest in the status quo but you have to admit, the US has been threatening the world ever since 1945. They have invaded and killed a hell of lot more over the past decades than Russia. Your nation, under the guidance of major corporations have murdered millions probably, all in the name of "democracy". WMD? That was a lie, even bush admitted it. The US invaded Iraq to try and control the middle eastern oil but it's failed. If there is a blind spot in anyone's thinking it is in yours my friend. After WWII Russia made a fence and kept their armies behind it. What does Europe have to fear from them now? The fence is down, those former countries are NATO. Leave Russia alone and it will leave you alone.

It's definitely a mixed bag. The Korean war definitely worked to the benefit of South Korea. Vietnam could have been entirely avoided if France had simply agreed to give Vietnam independence after WW2. It's interesting that Vietnam is now allied with the US as they are concerned about Chinese expansion in their region. The invasion of Panama restored democracy and was generally positively received by the Panamanian people. I feel sorry for the people of Afghanistan because we walked away before they had built a society capable of fending off the taliban. The invasion of Iraq was a mistake but that was because the country had too many different ethnic and religious groups that were not willing to work together. However, while there has been much conflict in Iraq since the US invaded, I would think that some groups are happier than when they were under Saddam's brutal dictatorship. The Iraqui Kurds are certainly enjoying a greater level of independence than they had under Saddam.

theluckycountry wrote:NO, it's all western BS, they want to loot Russia of it's natural resources but it wont happen. And they probably won't start a war either because they are degenerate bankrupt old nations more concerned with protecting their muslim immigrants and their transgender perverts. Everything about western culture is corrupt now and corrupt empires collapse, always have.


We certainly have our cultural problems in the West but I would never want to trade that for living in an authoritarian society such as Russia. Clearly some people are attracted to the idea of having a strong leader who can cut through the inefficiencies of a democracy but history shows that centralizing power in one individual quite often doesn't work out very well.
"new housing construction" is spelled h-a-b-i-t-a-t d-e-s-t-r-u-c-t-i-o-n.
yellowcanoe
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2013, 14:42:27
Location: Ottawa, Canada

PreviousNext

Return to Europe Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron